Questions

[Der Kuenstler]

Hello all - I am new to this board but have been playing Axis & Allies off and on since the '80s. I recently bought the Revised game and have been reading the rules and testing out the game board.

Just a few questions:

1. On the Revised map the British capitol logo appears to bridge between the UK and Eire - is there intented to be a land bridge there or does water separate them under the logo?

2. Submerging subs: I don’t get how this improves the play over simply withdrawing the subs to another sea zone as in the old rules. To me it complicates things. And what if you have a sub on a stack of chips? You can’t turn the chips over. Can someone explain how this rule is better?

3. This is an overall turn sequence question (I’ve wondered this from the original version too.) The game requires up to five players - usually only one is active while the other 4 are passively watching or one other guy is defending. This can make for a slow going game waiting for your turn to come around. Why can’t the action sequence be done by alternating ALL axis powers at once and then ALL allies at once? That way everyone is always active doing something.

Think about it -an Allied turn:
Develop weapons - Allies all do that at once
Purchase units - Allies all do that at once
Attack - Allies all do that at once  - if attacking the same territory and can’t agree on losses the defender could decide what they lose.
Non-combat - Allies all do that at once
Place new units - Allies all do that at once
(All other rules apply)

Then it’s the Axis turn and so forth. Have the Axis always go first since they are disadvantaged income-wise.

I wondered if anyone has tried this - it would sure speed up the game…

[Hobbes]

@Der:

1. On the Revised map the British capitol logo appears to bridge between the UK and Eire - is there intented to be a land bridge there or does water separate them under the logo?

Can’t remember, but you cannot attack neutrals on Revised so you don’t really need the answer :)

2. Submerging subs: I don’t get how this improves the play over simply withdrawing the subs to another sea zone as in the old rules. To me it complicates things. And what if you have a sub on a stack of chips? You can’t turn the chips over. Can someone explain how this rule is better?

It increases the versability of the subs. If the attacker misses, the sub remains on the location where you moved it and will continue to block any enemy naval movement through that sea zone. Plus, on the original version if you didn’t had any place to withdraw the sub then it would be destroyed.
Regarding the stack of chips, just announce that the subs have submerged. We never turn subs to indicate that they are submerged or battleships for damaged: people announce and everyone remembers.

3. This is an overall turn sequence question (I’ve wondered this from the original version too.) The game requires up to five players - usually only one is active while the other 4 are passively watching or one other guy is defending. This can make for a slow going game waiting for your turn to come around. Why can’t the action sequence be done by alternating ALL axis powers at once and then ALL allies at once? That way everyone is always active doing something.

Think about it -an Allied turn:
Develop weapons - Allies all do that at once
Purchase units - Allies all do that at once
Attack - Allies all do that at once  - if attacking the same territory and can’t agree on losses the defender could decide what they lose.
Non-combat - Allies all do that at once
Place new units - Allies all do that at once
(All other rules apply)

Have you considered the tremendous advantages it gives to the Allies on attack/non combat move? That way the 3 Allies can attack simultaneously (something not possible on the original version) and reinforce any conquered territory right away. Sure, the Axis can do that too, but there are only 2 of them and they are on opposite sides of the map, which makes such attacks/reinforcements rare (as opposed to the allies).

[newpaintbrush]

@Der:

Hello all - I am new to this board but have been playing Axis & Allies off and on since the '80s. I recently bought the Revised game and have been reading the rules and testing out the game board.

Fresh meat.  I mean, hi, new friend!

Just a few questions:

1. On the Revised map the British capitol logo appears to bridge between the UK and Eire - is there intented to be a land bridge there or does water separate them under the logo?

There is no land bridge there.  If there were, the Irish would invade London.  No, seriously, no land bridge, and as Hobbes mentioned, Eire is neutral anyways so it has no game effect, even if Eire lasses are bonny.

2. Submerging subs: I don’t get how this improves the play over simply withdrawing the subs to another sea zone as in the old rules. To me it complicates things. And what if you have a sub on a stack of chips? You can’t turn the chips over. Can someone explain how this rule is better?

Sometimes you don’t want to withdraw subs to another zone.  Remember how in Revised there was a “stranded sub” that couldn’t retreat that you could blow up?  Besides that, think about what happens if Germany goes for Long Range aircraft / invades London on G1.  If you send the Atlantic sub at sea zone 8 to attack the UK transport off Eastern Canada, even if you don’t sink the transport, you can submerge.  Then UK can’t load units.  I think.  Anyways - there are times and places for submerged subs.

If you have a sub on a stack of chips, you can turn the sub on top over.  If you have want, you can split the stack into two stacks, one to represent unsubmerged, one to represent submerged.  But as Hobbes said, it usually doesn’t matter that much.  You re-emerge subs at the end of each turn, so it’s not difficult to remember.

3. This is an overall turn sequence question (I’ve wondered this from the original version too.) The game requires up to five players - usually only one is active while the other 4 are passively watching or one other guy is defending. This can make for a slow going game waiting for your turn to come around. Why can’t the action sequence be done by alternating ALL axis powers at once and then ALL allies at once? That way everyone is always active doing something.

Think about it -an Allied turn:
Develop weapons - Allies all do that at once
Purchase units - Allies all do that at once
Attack - Allies all do that at once  - if attacking the same territory and can’t agree on losses the defender could decide what they lose.
Non-combat - Allies all do that at once
Place new units - Allies all do that at once
(All other rules apply)

Then it’s the Axis turn and so forth. Have the Axis always go first since they are disadvantaged income-wise.

I wondered if anyone has tried this - it would sure speed up the game…

Yeah, generally you try to play Axis and Allies while you’re watching a movie or painting miniatures or something with your buddies.  That’s how it goes.

[Hobbes]

@Bunnies:

If you send the Atlantic sub at sea zone 8 to attack the UK transport off Eastern Canada, even if you don’t sink the transport, you can submerge.  Then UK can’t load units.  I think.  Anyways - there are times and places for submerged subs.

You can load units in the presence of submerged subs. Page 32 of the manual:
“Enemy sea units may move freely through a sea zone containing a submerged submarine,
and enemy transports may load or offload there.”

[Krieghund]

True, but since all subs surface at the end of each turn, the German sub would no longer be submerged when the UK’s turn rolled around.  The transport would need to either leave the sea zone or attack (with other units, since it has no attack value).  If the sub were destroyed or submerged again, the transport would still be stuck in the sea zone since it engaged in combat.  Either way, those Canadian troops aren’t going anywhere by sea this turn.

The transport could, however, move over to the UK in combat movement and pick up units there for an amphibious assault, assuming the UK still belongs to the UK and there are no other enemy units blocking it from doing so.

[Krieghund]

Also, the UK symbol on the map is a “bridge”.  It links Northern Ireland with the rest of the UK so it’s all one territory.

[Ranor]

Actually the transport-sub-thing depends on the rule set. Under LHTR 2.0 the trn can load units and attack somewhere else, the one thing that is prevented by the sub are any non combat moves by that trn.

At the beginning of the combat move phase you may already have sea units in spaces containing
enemy units that were there at the start of your turn.
This situation will require you to do one of the following:

• Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat;
• Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct combat elsewhere;
• Leave the sea zone to load units and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat;
• Or, simply leave the sea zone and conduct no combat other than sailing out of harm’s way.

[Krieghund]

As I said, it may move and load units in another, friendly sea zone.  It may not load units in a hostile sea zone.  This is the same in both sets of rules.

[Der Kuenstler]

Thanks for the answers, guys - I’m still a little baffled on the sub thing - what is the point of saying it has submerged if it comes back up at non-combat?

[Krieghund]

Attacking subs may submerge after any round of combat.  They will then resurface at the end of their turn.  This will cause restrictions on enemy vessels in the sea zone on their next turn.  Transports won’t be able to load in the sea zone, since it is hostile, and all ships will need to either fight or flee, removing any possibility of doing a noncombat movement.  This can be a real strategic advantage under the right circumstances.

Defending subs may also submerge after any round of combat.  Basically, this just keeps them from being destroyed.  Since they remain submerged during that turn’s noncombat movement, they don’t block the attacker’s further movements that turn.  However, they resurface at the end of the turn, forcing the attacker to deal with them again in the same place on the next turn (provided they don’t move away).  Of course, if they stay, they must either leave or fight on their next turn (see above).

[Der Kuenstler]

OK that helps - thanks…

[hyogoetophile]

@Bunnies:

Yeah, generally you try to play Axis and Allies while you’re watching a movie or painting miniatures or something with your buddies.  That’s how it goes.

My slow-ass, original A&A turns actually got my friends playing Turok for the N64. Which led to Halo parties, and who knows what else. Lots of things can spawn during the in-between of A&A turns.

@Krieghund:

Either way, those Canadian troops aren’t going anywhere by sea this turn.

Those Canadian troops (or troop if it’s just that arm) can still make it out. Just pick them/it up in sz9 instead.

[Krieghund]

@hyogoetophile:

@Krieghund:

Either way, those Canadian troops aren’t going anywhere by sea this turn.

Those Canadian troops (or troop if it’s just that arm) can still make it out. Just pick them/it up in sz9 instead.

You’re right.  Good catch!  I didn’t have access to the map when I wrote this.  What I should have said was that you can’t load them in sea zone 1.  You could move to sea zone 9, if it’s friendly, and pick them up from there.  However, this does limit your options for movement to Algeria, the United Kingdom and Panama (and the Eastern US, though you don’t need a transport to go there), and then only in combat movement.  If you’re trying to stop a UK counter-attack against an invasion of the United Kingdom, you need to either sink the transport or block sea zone 9.

Under LHTR, your only options for these troops are amphibiously assaulting Panama, Eastern USA, United Kingdom or Algeria.  Under the box rules, you would also be allowed to leave the troops on board the transport at sea.