Dezrtfish,
I like your idea better about DZ deployment.
How does a commanders initiative bonus work?
I figured the Brits didn’t have air support. I was looking more into it to see if the Germans had any.
I figured the 9th recon belonged to the 9th panzer. I like you idea about not being able to move until round x, but I would change it to they can’t move unles attacked until round x.
Well in the case of the British XXX Corps, they had low initiative compared to Kurt Student who rapidly mobilized the paratroopers in defense of the Maas… Each Divisional commander is weaker or stronger depending upon there separate strengths…
GG
Hey,
Alright I got al kinds of information about the British 1st. So now I want to shift focus onto 82nd specifically.
-LT04
The 82nd were tasked with taking the central bridge at Nimejen and protecting the Right Flank of the XXX Corps from Attacks by German Troops coming out of the Reichswald Forest. Their defenses were centered on Groesbeek Heights, a hill position overlooking the City of Nimejen and relatively defensible. The German attackers comprised of several Ad Hoc Divisions and hodge podges of Luftwaffe Infantry, Hospital Quarterlies, and Training Groups attack the Airborne with a 15:1 numerical strength. But the 82nd on the Heights, being personally commanded by James Gavin were able to juggle their defense and hold off the German onslaught. They attacked into the city at the same time, and were stopped short of the bridge when the Germans through up a stiff defense. They eventually preformed a daring crossing during the afternoon of the 20th and successfully seized the southside of the Bridge over the Waal. But it was too late, since the Bridge in Arnhem had fallen that morning. That is history… What specifically else would you like to discuss? :)
GG
Hey,
I know the 9th and 10th Panzer DIV were combating the British 1st. That leaves the following units in the mix yet unaccounted for as far as starting locations and strength goes:
19th SS Grenadier DIV,
85th INF DIV,
719th INF DIV,
The 59th INF was also involved in Op MG but they were in or near Eindhoven combating the 101st.
Here are my 82nd questions:
Did 82nd have any air support?
Where and when did the 325 gliders of the 82nd land if at all?
Groesbeek Heights:
I was thinking of placing mountain terrain all around the city 1 space away like a mote to give the 82nd cover unless the Germans were to move onto the mountain space or closer. If they moved into the space between the mountains and the city this would leave them sitting ducks wile the ABN would have a cover role from the protection of the city. What do you think as far as that goes?
Although the 82nd was vastly outnumbered does any one have a proposal for how to compensate them for the inexperience of the training units and hospital orderlies?
Also the 20th (or turn 3) was a big day for the 82nd they both took the south side of the bridge and the 504th of the 82nd met up with XXX Corps. What happened 1st? It would be easier to take the bridge with the aid of XXX Corps, but if they met up later maybe we could make it so they don’t get the XXX Corps reinforcements until they take the south end of the bridge.
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
-LT04
Air support at large for the Paras was not well coordinated and they did not recieve much, except when the Transports and Gliders had Escorts.
The 325th Dropped on the Heights at the very end of the Operation, they had been delayed by bad weather. The 82nd Met up with the XXX Corps first, and that should be what happens first. Although the tanks of XXX Corps did help them in the crossing of the Waal.
I will have to get back to you on locations, I am not 100% clear on those… Groesbeek Heights was directly abudded up to the city, there should be no space between them…
GG
How does a commanders initiative bonus work?
It adds to the initiative dice at the begining of the round, you have played a few small scale games haven’t you?
I figured the Brits didn’t have air support. I was looking more into it to see if the Germans had any.
As far as I know air was not much of a factor for anyone
@losttribe04:
I figured the 9th recon belonged to the 9th panzer. I like you idea about not being able to move until round x, but I would change it to they can’t move unles attacked until round x.
I would say they can’t move unless an enemy unit move into thier line of site or, say, round 3, more realistic.
also the recon unit should not have movement restrictions. Durring the battle they saw alot of action in multiple areas.
I don’t think you should concentrate too much on forcing things to play out historicly. If XXX corp had been able to move faster, things may have been different. Maybe they could have rearainged thier battle order, or maybe they could have gotten lucky. Just set up the conditions and see if brilaint leadership or luck can make things different. Of course brilaint allied leadership would be to scrap the opperation, bu tthat’s my oppinion… :-D
Also, for the wermacht divisions, for more realisam just restrict them to volkstrum units and fortress defenders. The the volkstrum are weak infantry and the fortress defenders are weak if they leave their deployment spot, like say defending a bridge or city.
Form what I have gathered from research and from here air support isn’t an issue. I won’t restrict ether side from incorporating them into their armies but I won’t add any bonuses.
Any idea as to how many points I should award a division? I would say lets start with the 82nd here. We know that each allied division was about the same size. We also know that the 9th and 10th Panzer were about the same size as one allied division.
How does this sound for the point set up?
Arnhem Area:
Axis:
100 points Soldier
50 points ARM
Allies:
75 points Soldier first wave (turn one)
40 points soldier 52nd INF (turn three)*
50 points soldier Polish reinforcements (turn five)
30 points ARM XXX Corps (turn six)
*If the allies hold this objective mark at the end of the second turn beginning of the third tern they get the additional reinforcements.
Nijegen Area:
Axis:
100 points soldier
50 points ARM
Allies:
75 points soldier first wave (turn one)
25 points soldier second wave (turn two)
70 points ARM XXX Corps (turn 3)
Eindhoven Area:
Axis:
75 points soldier (due to hospital orderlies and so forth)
50 points Arm
Allies:
75 points soldier first wave (turn one)
25 points soldier second wave (turn two)
70 points ARM XXX Corps (turn 2) (due to the fact they are so close they would have had larger numbers)
I’m hoping that if the allies do well enough here they will move up to Nijegen to aid 82nd.
Let me know if you agree or disagree on these numbers I just threw these out to get the ball rolling.
-LT04
You might want to do platoons instead of straight points…
GG,
How you suggest that be handled? Do to the scale being so much larger than a normal AAM map do you think we could go from platoons to regiments? I think this would be easier. This is kinda how it would work for the 82nd:
508th deploys in and/or around Groesbeek Heights,
505th deploys just south of there.
504th would land on the other side of the canal from Nijmegen. South of the Waal river, North of the Maas river.
325 (reinforcements) would land East of Groesbeek Heights.
I think it would be feasible to break them down this way. I’m not sure how you would figure out how many units belong to each group if you didn’t use points. The reason I say this is take the US resourceful hero set him next to the BAR gunner and the Bazooka and they equal the same amount point wise.
I just really need more info on your idea. I think it could work don’t get me wrong I just don’t understand how you would pull it off yet.
-LT04
http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=12976
check the bottom of this page, it will give you an idea of what I mean…
I like that idea but at the same time I don’t. (If that makes any sense.) I like the idea of having a predetermined army b/c you can see before you start what you’re going to combat and through this can set up strategies for what you would do next time, like we do with other A&A games. I don’t like it because it takes away from the player’s freedom to choose what units s/he likes best. I don’t think I’ll incorporate that into the game b/c this is one of the fundamentals that makes AAM unique. Not only that I’m not going to go out of my way to collect every unit there is to make this happen, I’m going to use what I have.
-LT04
Understood… But if the 505th lands just south of Groesbeek Heights, what does that say to me? What about Glider Infantry? What separates them? Special rules?
GG
GG,
Well if every PIR has say 40 points assigned to it. It still gives the player options as to how s/he wants to diversify there forces. Maybe you would want lots of little crapy units farther ahead and more valuable units in Groesbeek Heights where they have the safety of the city to surround them. I picked those landing sites based on how the 82nd historically landed. They deployed as PIRs. As far as the 325 goes maybe we would allow it to be the only unit to have vehicles. The others can only have INF and ART units that fit into the soldier category. Then I would have to say XXX Corps could have what ever the player wanted.
-LT04
Alright the first Idea is cool with me…
Right, Glider Infantry Divisions get some Additional Points and they should be allowed the 3" Gun, 17Lber, Jeep, and Bren Carrier.
Keep it rolling…
GG
Hey,
I was reading in another area on this site and heard that some made a 3’ by 8’ map and used a 400 point army, and used about half of the available space.
I think this is very good news. I was worried about units being stuck together like lobsters in a tank. Also given the fact that we will have three secular points to focus on will divide some confusion too. Plus our map will be bigger.
Due to the over exaggeration on the scale of the map I think we should push for as many units as possible. With the Armhem area I’m about finished just some minor fixing that I won’t get around to, till later this week. (D*** day job seriously cuts into my free time) I’ll assemble a 400 point army for that section alone with low costing troops and see if it looks to over crowded.
FOCUS OF THE WEEK: Let’s move onto Eindhoven.
OPASITION: The German 59th INF was there does any one know who else was?
BRIDGES: I see a bridge in Veghal in the far north of their section.
Another in St. Dedenrode
Was it the one in Son that was destroyed prior to arrival?
Were there only three?
RANGE: Did 101st venture as far out as Helmond?
SUPRISES: Where there any unusual things (that I’m unaware of) that happened here that need to be considered to incorporate into the game?
I hope this week will be as productive as the last. Again that’s for all your help.
-LT04
As far as surprises go, the Allies were unaware of Panzer units in the area that had recently been located there. Don’t forget the terrain, particularly Hell’s Highway. It was an uphill battle (not literally, just that tanks were sitting ducks on that road).
I don’t know how much of a role the Dutch Resistance played after the drop (besides helping with the river crossings of the British and Polish troops), but that may be another factor on the Allies side.
The bridge at Son was blown, I believe. The Veghel one was an alternative. Look it up though, I’m just going by memory.
I can’t get the d*** map pic I have to post. It says it’s can’t be any larger than 128 KB. Any one have any ideas let me know maybe I could e-mail it to someone and let them post it.
-LT04
You could hotlink it here after hosting to another site.
Or, pull it into something like MS paint & resize it.
Here’s something you can try: http://home.cshore.com/bucwheat/iview.htm
There was a bridge at Best (Son alternate) and it was heavily fought over… I would incorporate that… There was not a very much opposition at Eindhoven except in the city by the 59th…
St. Edenrode is towards the south I believe only advanced on by the XXX Corps. Veghel was the farthest north that was landed on by the 101…
GG
