The best solution I found for including new and unique units was transitioning to a different die base, such as d10, d12, or d20. This entails accepting that infantry fights may go on forever, and so I’ve adopted a rule that, after three rounds of combat, surviving units stay in place. There is also a system for “holding” enemy forces on a 1:1 basis so that armies can hold one another in place.
I’ve though of different dice. What I don’t want to create here is over powered Nation specific units. I want to create Nation specific units that help those Nations in some situations and also add a bit more historical flavor to the game. Dice d10, d12 or d20 will add a lot of room for unit attacking and defending variables but also complication with too many different stats.
Another reason I decided to do this is as 1940 global is slightly biased towards the Axis I am trying to balance the game with creating Nation specific units. In my Nation specific unit house rules my goal is to eliminate the “bid” process.
I think that greater unit variety is a superior solution to unique units.
You’re correct that adding too many new units and rules changes the game by making it much more involved. One solution to that would be to create combat cards.
Just looking at the key concepts for which certain nations became known, I’d propose the following special units:
Germany: Heavy Tank (the Tiger is fine for this role). Alternatively, you could go with the '88 as a kind of cross between an AA gun and an anti-tank gun
Italy: Frogmen
U.K.: Battlecruiser, a kind of fast, lighter battleship
France: Foreign Legion
United States: Mechanized Infantry
Japan: Sure, the Yamato is fine. You could alternatively do a special submarine or fighter, or else simulate the Tokyo Express by allowing Destroyers to carry 1 infantry.
Russia: Militia is fine.
ANZAC: I’d give them a tougher infantry piece.
Another idea to slightly increase US MI special unit is to allow 2 MIs on TP or 1 MI plus any other ground unit. (An old Wittmann idea.)
So, that way, US player can put 1 Tank and 1 MI on same TP for maximum mobility on ETO.
France Foreign Legion can be a more fierced and battled hardened unit:
A2 D2 M1 Cost 3 cannot get Artillery bonus.
Can only be built outside Paris IC.
So only built in minor IC such Southern France or Bordeaux.
I believe most comes from North Africa, IDK much.
For Japan, I like the Tokyo express but it needs a few limitation such as one Cruiser or one Battleship must escort Destroyers unit filled with IJ Infantry unit in each.
For Russia, I don’t like militia.
Ketushiya like rocket Artillery seems more iconic:
Maybe Artillery combined 1:1 with MI is able to move 2 TTys on offense?
For ANZAC, I pretty like this one:
@Erocco:
ANZAC infantry cost 4, attack 2, defend 2, move 1, attack 3 or less when paired with artillery
For UK, all Cruiser units are considered Battle Cruiser:
A4 D3 M2-3, 1 hit, shore bombard @4, Cost 12
San Marco Marines regiment
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 4
Can travel on Cruiser or Battleship.
Cannot combine arms with Artillery.
For Germany, this Heavy Tank works for me:
Germany - Tiger Tank -
A3 D3 M2 C8 takes two hits to destroy, cannot be repaired once hit, rest is same as a tank - Unit used OBO AA 1941 Tiger Tank or HBG Tiget Tank version
France Foreign Legion can be a more fierced and battled hardened unit:A2 D2 M1 Cost 3 cannot get Artillery bonus. Can only be built outside Paris IC. So only built in minor IC such Southern France or Bordeaux
I like this. I had a tough time creating stats for another infantry so this is very clever.
For Russia, I don’t like militia. Ketushiya like rocket Artillery seems more iconic: Maybe Artillery combined 1:1 with MI is able to move 2 TTys on offense?
My only issue with this I have created the self propelled artillery as another unit for all Nations at A2 D2 M2 C5 increase infantry attack +1 and I am using the Katyusha unit from HBG as the Russian model.
As far as Germany - Tiger Tank - A3 D3 M2 C8 takes two hits to destroy and cannot be repaired I am thinking it’s way too powerful. I am thinking raising the cost to 9. Can’t decide…
I always thought it was a little elementary to have every nation have the exact same units with the same stats. For example, Italy’s tanks would realistically be cheaper and weaker than Germany’s tanks. I suppose that came from Larry Harris’ emphasis on keeping the game simple. But I don’t see how it would complicate things too much as long as you had a reference card right in front of you with the stats listed for your country.
France Foreign Legion can be a more fierced and battled hardened unit:A2 D2 M1 Cost 3 cannot get Artillery bonus. Can only be built outside Paris IC. So only built in minor IC such Southern France or Bordeaux
I like this. I had a tough time creating stats for another infantry so this is very clever.
Thanks. :-)For Russia, I don’t like militia. Ketushiya like rocket Artillery seems more iconic: Maybe Artillery combined 1:1 with MI is able to move 2 TTys on offense?
My only issue with this I have created the self propelled artillery as another unit for all Nations at A2 D2 M2 C5 increase infantry attack +1 and I am using the Katyusha unit from HBG as the Russian model.
As far as Germany - Tiger Tank - A3 D3 M2 C8 takes two hits to destroy and cannot be repaired I am thinking it’s way too powerful. I am thinking raising the cost to 9. Can’t decide…
You are right. The Battlecalc shows Heavy with 2 hits it is too OP at 8 IPCs vs reg Tank at 6.
9 is the right cost to make Heavy slightly better against Tank only but a bit inferior to 1 reg Tank and 1 Inf on offense (A4 D5 C9, 2 hits)
OK for Katyusha sculpt as Mech Art then.
Another idea, special Soviet Anti-Tank unit:
Can read: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ru_antitank/
Anti-Tank Gun
Attack 1-2
Defense 3
Move 1
Cost 4
Hit 1
Gets +1 on offense if paired 1:1 with Infantry or Mechanized Infantry.
This unit allows to figure a better defense than pure Infantry and simulate enhanced defensive lines against Germain ground assault. See Battle of Kursk to understand how delaying the attack on july 1943 instead of early spring for Blietzkrig makes Von Meinstein attack an impossible task, even at a 1 German vs 2 russian soldier casualty rate, against an heavily prepared Soviet army.
This one is still better to rise defense factors vs pure Infantry stack:
Anti-Tank Gun, with higher defense
Attack 1
Defense 3
Move 1
Cost 4 IPCs
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Infantry or Mechanized Infantry paired 1:1
The Marine infantry should get an added bonus when conducting amphibious landings.
The Foreign Legion was headquartered in Sidi Bel Abbes, in French Algeria, until 1962. I would say that there ought to be three Legion infantry on the board at the start of play, without the option to build more. These would be in Algeria, Syria, and Indochina.
The Katyusha is fine as a Russian unit if you think it most iconic.
I’d counsel the Frogmen for Italy because those units made the most iconic contribution to the Italian war effort. The San Marco Marine Regiment, while interesting, is arguably even more obscure than the frogmen.
Der Kuenstler, the problem with that is this: Italy’s tanks, despite being weaker, would presumably not be cheaper, although one presumes that they would have been. The relative weakness of Italian arms vis-à-vis German arms is simulated by Italy’s smaller overall IPC value. An alternative to trying to calibrate costs and strengths for each power is to assign Italy a different type of units. For example, you can use the A&A:1914 aeroplanes to stand in for Italy’s weaker air force.
I think that, generally speaking, the transport plane, airborne infantry, marine infantry, and torpedo boat flotilla deserve to be included in A&A for anybody considering additional units.
The Marine infantry should get an added bonus when conducting amphibious landings.
The Foreign Legion was headquartered in Sidi Bel Abbes, in French Algeria, until 1962. I would say that there ought to be three Legion infantry on the board at the start of play, without the option to build more. These would be in Algeria, Syria, and Indochina.
I’d counsel the Frogmen for Italy because those units made the most iconic contribution to the Italian war effort. The San Marco Marine Regiment, while interesting, is arguably even more obscure than the frogmen.
I think that, generally speaking, the transport plane, airborne infantry, marine infantry, and torpedo boat flotilla deserve to be included in A&A for anybody considering additional units.
France can have 3 starting Legion Infantry. But, it should be possible to built more under certains circumstances. A&A is a what-if WWII simulation. IDK what can be historically sound TTy to allow building up such unit. Maybe something like: can only be mobilized outside European TTy?
If Frogmen is more iconic, so be it.
After reading on this special unit, a small commando division, I would still keep these abilities, especially cruiser and battleship carrying capacity, and little defense @1 because it has less sustaining capability:
ITALIAN FROGMEN MARINES
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 4
Can travel on Cruiser or Battleship.
Cannot combine arms with Artillery.
About Marines, here is my prefered original idea which can also works for UK Commando units:
@Baron:
From a game perspective, an interesting and very specialized unit would be like this one.
It has low cost but also lower combat values to balance with its carrying capacity on Cruiser and Battleship.
Try to see the game at army group level, Marines combat unit division are certainly smaller than a full fledge army unit. That is why I suggest low offense / defense values except in the one combat situations which gives Marines their reputation: amphibious assault.Marines as simply Marines and nothing more
Cost 3
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1Sea movement bonus:
1 Marines unit can be carried on 1 Battleship or 1 Cruiser.
Transport can load 2 Marines or 1 Marines plus any other 1 ground unit.
Gets +1A on amphibious assault only.No combined arms with Artillery.
No production limit number.That way, 2 Marines for 6 IPCs, A4 D2 on amphibious assault will be better cost ratio than regular Infantry paired with Artillery A4 D4 C7.
But, in defense, 2 Marines Defense @2 cannot hold the ground as 2 Infantry Defense @4.And also 2 Marines being weaker if going inland combat by themselves because of the no pairing bonus with artillery. But they stay on par 1:1 compared to a single Infantry on offense.
Also, in amphibious assault, Marines will be probably taken amongst first casualties compared to regular infantry because it is the same attack factor than Inf with Artillery (but have a lesser defense factor (very low 1), unless you keep them to move on a Cruiser or BB and want to spare TP to turn back home for new supply on next turn. So, such Marines unit will more often die during debarkment and regular Infantry will last longer, in anticipation of next assault going inland.
So, it provides a different kind of tactical combat with 2 Marines on TP and still keeping Inf+Art a competitive combination too.
D1 was to reflect the smaller number of soldiers involved per unit compared to standard Infantry unit.
It is not for lesser morale but for less logistics and support required by this unit.
Lower defense @1, come from the lesser number of individuals being less equiped than regular Infantry unit.
Attack @2 on amphibious assault is balanced by lower defense @1 to allow a more balanced Cruiser and Battleship carrying capacity. This unit have a better attacking factor because of abilities, training and surprise tactics despise their fewer number of soldiers. They can do a lot with less but not for an extended period.In addition, their lower defense factor would make them amongst the first casualty during counter-attack which can figure for they high risk mission they undertake.
You are right. The Battlecalc shows Heavy with 2 hits it is too OP at 8 IPCs vs reg Tank at 6. 9 is the right cost to make Heavy slightly better against Tank only but a bit inferior to 1 reg Tank and 1 Inf on offense (A4 D5 C9, 2 hits)
Just curious Baron which calculator is that? All A&A calculators that I know off only have the default units programmed.
BTW Italian Marine Frogmen I like it! I am leaning towards this: Italy – Frogmen Marines – A2 D2 M1 C4 – Can be carried on a battleship or cruiser (only one unit per ship), cannot be paired with artillery
You are right. The Battlecalc shows Heavy with 2 hits it is too OP at 8 IPCs vs reg Tank at 6. 9 is the right cost to make Heavy slightly better against Tank only but a bit inferior to 1 reg Tank and 1 Inf on offense (A4 D5 C9, 2 hits)
Just curious Baron which calculator is that? All A&A calculators that I know off only have the default units programmed.
BTW Italian Marine Frogmen I like it! I am leaning towards this: Italy � Frogmen Marines � A2 D2 M1 C4 � Can be carried on a battleship or cruiser (only one unit per ship), cannot be paired with artillery
I used AACalc.
To get free hits, you need to put TP casualty first, then other naval unit.
For instance, I put 6 TPs A0 and 6 Cruisers A3 against 8 Cruisers D3.
This simulates 6 Heavy Tank A3 D3 C8, 2 hits vs 8 Med Tank A3 D3 C6, 1 hit
Results:
A. survives: 86.9% D. survives: 11.8% No one survives: 1.3%
Clearly OP vs reg Tank
But 6 TPs A0 and 6 Cruisers A3 against 9 Cruisers D3.
To simulate 6 Heavy Tank A3 D3 C9, 2 hits vs 9 Med Tank A3 D3 C6, 1 hit
Results:
A. survives: 66% D. survives: 31.7% No one survives: 2.4%
While 6 Heavy at 10 IPCs would get:
A. survives: 41.1% D. survives: 56.2% No one survives: 2.6%
That way, you can judge what kind of Combat Points /IPCs ratio you want to give.
So, if you want a better Heavy Tank than regular Tank, you see that at 9 IPCs, Heavy has a better cost ratio and odds of survival while at 10 IPCs it is stronger to use regular Tanks.
So, to have an optimized unit with a specific niche, Heavy needs to be 9 IPCs.
Of course, if you allows to repair damaged Heavy Tank, then it can be 10 IPCs.
A repairable unit can be weaker than a cheaper 1 hit, because it saved money on the long run.
Very clever Baron. Thank you for this!
The Tiger won’t be allowed to repair. Complicates it too much… So I think cost at 9 work well IMO.
Very clever Baron. Thank you for this!
The Tiger won’t be allowed to repair. Complicates it too much… So I think cost at 9 work well IMO.
One issue with 2 hits units is that a large number such as 6 Heavy 2 hits makes for a very huge buffer before taking casualty, at least in the first combat. Such 54 IPCs investment makes a massive buldozer, before starting to lose unit in the stack.
Another way to apply 2 hits, is to only allows 1 damaged unit at a time. So 2 hits taken on 6 Heavys results in 1 Heavy casualty. That way, in each combat zone with Heavys, there is only 1 damaged Heavy at a time. So, it can be easy to allow a single damaged Tank unit to be repaired per TTy for free.
BTW Italian Marine Frogmen I like it! I am leaning towards this: Italy Frogmen Marines A2 D2 M1 C4 Can be carried on a battleship or cruiser (only one unit per ship), cannot be paired with artillery
On this issue, you must know that Balanced Mode have a universal Marines unit with these values:
Marines A2 D2 M1 C5, one can be carried on CA or BB.
If the ability to move on Cruiser and Battleship is limited to Italy, this is OK.
But allowing such move to more Powers can affect balance because this kind of powerful Infantry at 4 IPCs (same value as Artillery) can be prefered over regular Inf and Artillery which need regular defenseless TP.
That is one of the reason I kept a low Defense 1 to this unit to still make Inf and Artillery attractive.
Only Italy can build Italian Marine Frogmen thus the stats I chose. Will give them a small advantage but not a game changer.
Addressing the issue of unit size, individual pieces in Axis & Allies typically depict the Corps or Army level, as I understand it. However, there are a few deviations to depict smaller, independent commands, such as the two British infantry in Hong Kong and the French and British infantry scattered in West Africa south of the Sahara.
I understand the desire to be able to build every type of unit, but I think that scarcity places correct emphasis on those troops’ elite status. The mobilization rule would be a quirk: the Legion has periodically fought on the mainland (as during WWI, for example). Its frequent foreign deployments are rather a reflection of the fact that the Legion’s peculiar non-national composition gives French politicians greater latitude to pursue foreign policy that has some blood cost.
I think that Frogmen should get to roll a d6 against every capital ship, hitting on a 2 or less. They should have no independent combat value because they operated as small units, not at the division level.
When it comes to Marine infantry, the question is whether you view naval units of any type as indicative of fleets (e.g., a Destroyer could stand in for a single capital ship), or whether you want them to represent actual unit types, in which case I don’t think a Cruiser or Battleship should be allowed to carry Marines. Historically speaking, Cruiser divisions sometimes fielded Marine and naval landing parties, but these comprised perhaps slightly over 100 men when multiple ships combined their detachments.
Think about whether you want to confer advantage to certain units only for certain rounds of combat. The difficulty of remembering when and how to roll for them can be partially mitigated by player aids.
One additional unit type for which HBG makes a piece is the Armored Car. This is especially good if you want to game out the inter-war period. I have developed rules allowing attackers to re-roll a die when an Armored Car is present in the attacking force. This is a play on their role as reconnaissance elements. Think about Cavalry, also. Perhaps Cavalry strike harder versus infantry when they outnumber defenders.
I’ve used cards to trigger the appearance of special units denoted by markers. They can also be used to grant nation-specific bonuses for a single round of play, etc. This works better on much larger maps with a game that is expected to go on a while, especially because the cards can be used as interrupts, which prevents players getting bored between turns.
