Thanks for everyone’s answers. I’ll have to try out the Aircraft Carrier option next time.
I’ll have to read yours in more detail next time I play it (which will be soon hopefully :-D), Darkman.
German strategy for building AC
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I haven’t built a navy with Germany yet, but I think I would consider a 3 trn buy in the baltic on G1. Here is why:
1. UK has to protect against a possible London invasion
2. Bolsters the defense of the existing Baltic fleet enough to discourage a round 1 attack on it.
3. Very useful for counterattacking any UK/US foothold in Norway and/or moving troops to EE/Karelia from the Western FrontThere is a paper written about this purchase over at Caspian Sub with lots of analysis (sorry, don’t have the URL handy).
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I have seen that purchase made and it is effective. I generally go with the AC to save 8 IPC, have a better chance of taking something down with me, and because Germany taking London is tough.
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I would also prefer 3 trn over 1 ac if I get a chance to strafe the Allied fleet with Germany. even though the ac attacks at 1, and the transports all attack at 0, that is 3 more hits I can absorb with my fleet before I start loosing air. I start with 2 sub, 1 trn, 1 des. Add 3 trn and I have 7 boats for fodder on an attack on allied shipping. Who knows I may even be able to strafe for 2 rounds without risking air.
Even 2 trn on G1 might be enough to discourage an attack on that fleet in round 1, and costs the same as an ac.
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The Caspian sub paper you refer to is a pretty good read.
But I feel it does not address the “instant loss” factor.
By this, I refer to a strategy that can LOSE you the game right away, depending on your opponent’s move, or dice rolls.
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True, the UK player may not even attack, and will PROBABLY hedge bets by sending the UK bomber to Anglo-Egypt.
However, if the UK player DOES attack, AND the UK player gets LUCKY, then it is immediately crippling to Germany.
Of course, if the UK player attacks and has only regular luck, it’s a solid German move. But I think that, even though 2-3 Baltic transports is a feasible move for Germany that is important to consider, I think that it is not necessarily “sound”, in the sense that pawn to king four is sound. I get more of the feeling that it’s like an opening of pawn to queen bishop four - not wrong, but not a conservative line of play either.
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I always assume as Germany that I will lose the baltic fleet at some point. I don’t see how the UK destroying early equals an “instant loss”. I have not read the Caspian papers so if you could enlighten me I would be obliged. It may make me rethink the way I make my purchases as Germany.
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CrazyStraw and I have already gone around regarding his Baltic TRN purchase. Not going to re-hash it again.
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I always assume as Germany that I will lose the baltic fleet at some point. I don’t see how the UK destroying early equals an “instant loss”. I have not read the Caspian papers so if you could enlighten me I would be obliged. It may make me rethink the way I make my purchases as Germany.
Join Csub yourself (it’s Free with a yahoo id)
Good stuff
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I was hoping to have Crazy Straw come back here…
I kind of miss him on these boards…
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@ncscswitch:
I was hoping to have Crazy Straw come back here…
I kind of miss him on these boards…
Reminiscing of old times eh?
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Thanks for the link I will definately check it out.
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I thought the CSUB was a paper not a forum. Thanks for turning me on to it. 8-)
-LT04
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i agree with Jennifer on this one. It seems like a waste of IPCs
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LIES ALL LIES!! :x
I tried the German Navy technique 5 times on my A&A CD-ROM. Every time I would buy a diffrent Navy and spend all of Germany’s income for the first two rounds, in addition to that I wouldn’t attack Russia just move all my units to the front. In conjunction with this I would use all of Germany’s Luft Waffe to strafe the Allied Navy. Every time the Allies destroyed the German Baltic Navy before the third round the German Navy was sunk and the German front line was crippled due to the lack of “keeping up with the Jones’s” you need on the German-Russian front. :cry: :cry:
I tried the scenario again 5 times only this time buying FTR’s for the first two rounds pushing up all Germany’s units to the front lines as I did before and not attacking Russia also as I did before. It was so beautiful to watch Germany’s Iron Cross fill the skies wile looking down at the Allied Navy burning and drowning all at the same time. :evil: :evil:
So I’m going to have to go against the German Navy strategy and consider the German Luft Waffe strategy for fine tuning.
Reporting to you live from Berlin LT04 out.
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The A&A CD-Rom is Classic version is it not?
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That is correct, the A&A CD-ROM game is classic game format. Why? Do you think that would make that big of a difference?
-LT04
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pretty much it would….
Squirecam
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Va???
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Yes, it makes a big difference. Â In Revised the game is generally considered to be more balanced, while in classic the game is more unbalanced favouring the allies (possibly why you found that russia pummelled you on an all-navy buy). Â Also in revised you start with 4 ships in the baltic and in classic you only start with 2. Â Also in revised germany gets 40 IPC to start but in classic on 32 IPC. Â Also in revised AC cost 16 IPC but in classic they cost 18 IPC. Â Also in revised there are more sea zones between Eastern US and the baltic, so it takes longer for the US to bring forces to bear on it. Â In Classic the US can get their much more quickly to help mop up your fledgling navy.
Plus I’m sure many other differences that may also play a role.
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Wow thats a lot of diffrences. :-o does triple A use classic format or the revised? Maybe I could find a newer copy and try it there.
-LT04
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I need more detail about how you play Germany, because I have trouble with it. Caveat: I’ve played Revised only a couple of times; my experience is mainly with the original version. Although certain changes helped the Axis, the Allies also gained advantages here and there. Also, I have no experience with the bid system. (This post was intended to follow up on the “Axis and Allies first turns - Germany” thread started by newpaintbrush, but I have so many questions and I didn’t want to kidnap that thread.)
First, let’s assume R1 took Belo and W. Russia, left Karel and Arch wide open, but left big stack in W. Russia (3Inf, 1art, 4arm) and heavily fortified Caucasus (e.g. 7inf, 1art, 2F) – I based that assumption on newpaintbrush’s R1 option to attack Belo and W. Russia and used the battle simulator at http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html to estimate results. (F=fighter, art=artillery, arm=armor, inf=infantry)
Second, I’m intrigued by all the talk about G1 AC; I’ve always thought building any navy at all would doom Germany, but so many folks seem to disagree, so I guess I better try it. :wink:Â So let’s start with 1AC, 8 inf for the sake of argument.
Questions:
1. I figure I should take Karel, but from where and with how much inf? from Norway? with 1, 2 or 3 inf? This is important, because…
2. Should I reinforce Norway with 2inf from Germany, or move those 2inf to Eastern Europe. If I reinforce it, should add fighters? Except…
3. Which fighters should land on AC? from Norway and E. Europe?
4. I assume I should take back Belo (which should have only 1inf based on the simulator), and I would do this with 2inf, 1F?
5. After all that, the most I can leave in Ukraine is 5inf, 1art, 2arm, 1F, but Ukraine then faces a huge combined stack from W. Russia/Caucasus R2. Do I pull 2arm back into Balkans for a counter-attack?
6. How much to leave on W. Europe? I would like to leave at least 3inf, 2arm, 2F, possibly 3F.
7. I assume I take Egypt with 2inf, 2arm, 1F, so S. Europe has only 1inf to move into W. Europe or Balkans. (Note: the battle simulator says on average I will be left with but 1arm in Egypt, 2 if I’m lucky. I move 1inf 1art from Algeria to Libya during NC.
8. Where to place 8inf? 1-2 in S. Europe, 6-7 in Germany?I really enjoy reading all your posts, everyone, and I certainly appreciate there are many good strategies and no one “best” strategy, which is why it’s a great game. However, many of the strategies I see discussed could address these types of details in order to be more helpful to less experienced players like me. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on the above.
1. I advocate a very lightly held Caucasus, with Russian fighters landing in Moscow, if Russia goes for Belorussia/West Russia.
2. Taking Karelia depends on the Russian move and purchase, and the German naval plan. If Norway is to be secured as a fighter base to stop the Allies from securing a fleet northwest of London, then Germany should not attack Karelia heavily. On the other hand, if Germany does not plan to keep Norway, Germany should attack Karelia with quite a bit.
2A. German fighters should either land at Western Europe or Norway. Splitting German fighters invites the Allies to attack an underdefended Norway to kill the German fighters. So, if Norway is to be held, it should typically have a good fat stack of infantry plus fighters. Of course, infantry at Norway are infantry not used to fight Russia. It is not a light decision to hold Norway.
3. 2 inf 1 fighter is the “standard” for taking a 2 IPC territory.
4. Fighters that land on the carrier should do so to minimize numbers of territories fighters are in. That is to say, if you CAN put three fighters on Norway, two on the carrier, and one must land in Libya, so be it. But it is probably not right to put one fighter in Norway, one in Western Europe, one in Balkans, two on a carrier, and one on Libya. That invites the Allies to attack one of those territories and cheaply kill a German fighter.
5. Trying to take Ukraine in force early with Germany is pretty risky. You have a counterthreat of E. Europe infantry plus assorted German tanks if Russia does attack Ukraine, but, well, it really depends on the German goals. If Germany controlled Ukraine at the beginning of G1, Germany can POSSIBLY abandon the Atlantic early to land fighters at Ukraine, but that is very costly, as Ukraine fighters don’t threaten Algeria as Western Europe fighters would. Nevertheless, it’s an option that Germany can consider.
6. Generally, you want two units in Southern Europe available for transport to Africa on G1, G2, and G3; the transport is changed to Ukraine/Caucasus on G4+ (BUT that can change depending on the Allied play). You do NOT want to produce lots of units in Southern Europe. The ONLY things that should be produced in Southern Europe are units to be transported to Africa AND units that are planned to be moved to W. Europe on the next turn.
Rationale - if you march from Germany to Eastern Europe, you can then go to Ukraine, Belorussia, or Karelia. But if you go from Southern Europe to Balkans, only Belorussia and Ukraine are available. Thus, producing infantry at Germany offers greater tactical flexibility on the third turn after production.
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