Escort Carrier?

[SteveO]

Hi Axis & Allies fans…

I had an idea for my games with my friend, to add a unit purchase option, the “Escort Carrier”.
As you will all probably know, merchant vessels were modified to become light carriers.
Poorly defended and slow, the carriers could also only hold a limited number of fighters.

I was thinking to add a escort carrier as an option to purchase in the game, when you haven’t got enough left for a full size carrier!

Specifics:
IPCs: 8 - 11 IPCs, not sure. Looking for comments on what you think here.
Carry one plane only.
Attack value: 0
Defense value: 0 or 1.

Thoughts?

Steve

[baron Münchhausen]

Light and escort carriers were two different warships.
Escort Carriers CVE were use against Sub using TBF avenger Tactical bomber and Martlet (Wildcat) Fighter.
IMO CVE carrying 1 plane
A0 D1 M2 Cost 10 Anti Sub as Destroyers is fine for 1942.2.

Lightcarrier CVL were built on Cruiser frame, hence a better combat value.
They were sometimes use as escorting vessels to screen other bigger carriers with their flight while fleet carriers wings were going on mission.
Carrying 1 plane
A1 D2 M2 cost 10 is correct too for 1942.2.

In G40, I would lower CVL attack to zero:
A0 D2 M2 cost 10
and
G40 CVE carrying 1 plane can be like this:
A0 D0 M2 Cost 8, Anti Sub Vessel as Destroyer.

[baron Münchhausen]

@SteveO:

Hi Axis & Allies fans…

I had an idea for my games with my friend, to add a unit purchase option, the “Escort Carrier”.
As you will all probably know, merchant vessels were modified to become light carriers.
Poorly defended and slow, the carriers could also only hold a limited number of fighters.

I was thinking to add a escort carrier as an option to purchase in the game, when you haven’t got enough left for a full size carrier!
**Specifics:
IPCs: 8 - 11 IPCs, not sure. Looking for comments on what you think here.
Carry one plane only.
Attack value: 0
Defense value: 0 or 1.

Thoughts?**

Steve

Here is a few ideas thrown in forum a few years back.
You have different combat values according to type and game, whether G40.2 or 1942.2.

@Baron:

This is a list of different carriers unit.
Does it worth it to introduce them in the Atlantic and the Pacific for more historical inspiration?
Does it unbalanced the game against subs (and Germany)?
I think it is the case.
So introducing those sea units AntiSubWeapon (i.e. escort carrier), should be outweighted by a special sub rules Wolfpack attack : when 3 subs or more attack the same sea-zone, the first round is Att@3 per sub, the other round  Att@2 per sub. It can be a first strike or not. The presence of an ASW vessel doesn’t cancel the Wolfpack capability since it’s only for the first round of battle. This rule apply for any power, not only Germany.

Is Anti-Sub Weapon too cheap?
Is it better to rise the cost of a CVE to 10 IPCs and of a CVL to 12 IPCs?  
Because many will prefer them instead of destroyers?

Cost  Move    Att    Def
Escort carrier CVE
(Casablanca 28 fighters)   9 [10?]   2      0[1]   1   Takes 1 hit/ ASW / Carry 1 fighter
Light carrier CVL 1942 version
(Independence 45 fgts)   11(12?)   2[3]   1   2[1] Takes 1 hit/ ASW / Carry 1 fighter
Light carrier CVL 1940 version
(Independence 45 fgts)   10 (11?)   3      0   1   Takes 1 hit/ ASW / Carry 1 fighter

Fleet carrier CV 1942 version
(Yorktown/Big-E 90 fgts)   14      2       1        2    Takes 1 hit/  Carry 2 fighters
Fleet carrier CV 1940 version
(Essex 100 fgts)             16      2      0        2     Takes 2 hits/ Carry 2 fighters/ if hit once, only 1 fighter can operate and land on it, repaired at the end of the round near a Naval Base.
Fleet carrier CV 1942
(Essex 100 fgts)             18      2      1          2     Takes 2 hits/ Carry 2 fighters/ if hit once, only 1 fighter can operate and land on it, repaired as BB at the end of the round.

Supercarrier CVB
(Midway 130 fgts)             22    2      1           3 Takes 2 hits/ Carry 3 fighters/ if hit once, only 2 fighters can operate and land on it, repaired as BB at the end of the round.

Carrier (any) are priority target: for a battleship (BB) to absorb 1 hit, you must allocate one hit to a carrier if their is one present.
If there is more than one carrier, another carrier (any) or an already damaged BB must also take a hit before a second BB soaks 1 hit.
Thus, a fleet with 1CV (2hits) and 2BB have to take 1 hit on the CV before taking the two hits on each BB.

Another fleet with 1CV (2 hits), 1CVL (1 hits) and 2BB have to take 1 hit on the CV, 1 hit on the BB, then either sunk the CV or the CVL before allocate another hit on the second BB.
Although, it is possible to sink the BB instead of a carrier.
It is also possible to sink the CVL first, then take 1 hit on a BB, then 1 hit on the CV then 1 hit on the other BB.
Inspiration: Gamers Paradise

About fighters operations on a damaged CV
If we take a look at the initial placement of 1942.2, USA has only 1 CV in Hawaii.
This unit represent actually 1 group of three carriers: CV-5 Yorktown damaged/CV-6 Enterprise fully operational /CV-8 Hornet fully operational).
So, I think it can be acceptable to a damaged CV to still be able to operate 1 aircraft because it is not only 1 carrier but a task force of this kind of unit.

More, if 1 turn is three months long, it is enough time to repair a carrier.
For instance, the Yorktown took only 48h at Pearl Harbour before going to Midway.

I use the following rules to determine the cost:
2 IPCs for 1 point Att or Def. 1 IPC for ASW. 2 IPCs for 1 additionnal hit.
Examples:
CV (1+2)+2xfgts(3+4)= 17 points x2= 34 IPCs: 14 IPCs for the carrier + 2 IPCs for 1 additionnal Hit= total 16 IPCs
CVE (1+1)+fgt(3+4)= 9 points x 2= 18 IPCs:      8 IPCs for the carrier + 1 IPC for AntiSubWeapon = total 9 IPCs
CVL (1+2)+fgt(3+4)= 10 points x 2= 20 IPCs:    10 IPCs for the carrier +1 IPC for AntiSubWeapon= total 11 IPCs
CVB (1+3)+3xfgts(3+4)= 25 points x2 = 50 IPCs: 20 IPCs for the carrier /+ 2 IPCs for 1 additionnal Hit= total 22 IPCs

[Buran]

I have started to add this unit to my games, although I have combined Light and Escort Carriers into one category of units, depending on the units available to the nation.  But all have the same stats; A0 D1 M2 C9  It would have the same abilities as a Fleet Carrier, although it only carries 1 aircraft, (Fighter, or Tactical Bomber) as well it only has one hit.

I have also been looking at adding a super Fleet Carrier like the Essex Class for the USA, same stats as the normal Fleet Carrier, except Cost of 20 IPC’s, still a 2 hit capital ship, and can carry 3 aircraft.

With all the units the HBG has it is making these additions easy.

Buran

[baron Münchhausen]

@Buran:

**I have started to add this unit to my games, although I have combined Light and Escort Carriers into one category of units, depending on the units available to the nation.  **But all have the same stats; A0 D1 M2 C9  It would have the same abilities as a Fleet Carrier, although it only carries 1 aircraft, (Fighter, or Tactical Bomber) as well it only has one hit.

I have also been looking at adding a super Fleet Carrier like the Essex Class for the USA, same stats as the normal Fleet Carrier, except Cost of 20 IPC’s, still a 2 hit capital ship, and can carry 3 aircraft.

With all the units the HBG has it is making these additions easy.

Buran

I do the same in my games.
You should try adding Anti-Submarine Weapon to this 1 plane Carrier (9 or 10 IPCs).
Add funny option (specific niche to this unit) and it better depicts  Escort Carriers operations in various tactical situations, especially in Atlantic Theater of Operation (ATO).

[Buran]

I have thought of the ASW options, but as I have some torpedo bomber types of aircraft, I have given them that option.  Although they are a tech development.  Still working out the bugs in the rules, long process, but its coming there.

I more just wanted the Light/Escort Carrier to be a smaller cheaper flat top, to get more flight deck space on the board.