@knp7765:

@AllyAxis:

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu   so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

Yes, Japan does start the game in control of Kiangsu, but it has a Chinese symbol printed on the map.  That means that the original owner of that territory is China.  The only territory outside of Japan that Japan can build a Major IC on is Korea because it is worth 3 IPCs and has a Japanese symbol actually printed on the map itself.  I know this is kind of an oddball rule with Japan starting the game in control of Kiangsu, but you are supposed to pay attention to the symbol that is printed on the actual map to determine original ownership.

I disagree with that interpretation on the grounds that I understood the markers to mean that china could move into those territories which are chinese ,  but not orignally controlled by china at the beginning of the game.  Original control to me is what territories you start with.  NOT your interpretation of the rule.  It sounds stupid to interpret it that way when original control clearly means what you start with is what you originally control.

@AllyAxis:

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!   I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.   I never found that rule.

Actually your wrong.  Alpha 3  states orignally controlled territories.

Industrial Complexes:
Major industrial complexes can only be built on originally controlled territories (this includes upgrading minor ones). Likewise they may not be upgraded when captured. Major industrial complexes are reduced to minor when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

I originally owned Shanhi/Kiangsu  so as he Japanese I can build there.  Maybe thats an Alpha 3 rule change that slipped through.  It doesn’t say foreign countries.

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!  I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.  I never found that rule.

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

@Cmdr:

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

let me know where to go next and I will totally go there.  Thanks for your advice Cmr Jennifer it has been helpful in my recent matches!!!

@knp7765:

Just finished our first game of Alpha+3.  Axis won in 7 rounds – Germany/Italy captured 8 of 11 on Europe board.  Was just about to take London too.  Japan also came close to getting 6 of 8 on the Pacific board but USA retook Honolulu in last round.
Germany decided against Sealion and concentrated on sacking Paris, sinking Royal Navy and preparing for Barbarossa.  Put Major IC in Romania round 1.  Round 2 put 3 transports in Black Sea and an airbase for Romania with 3 fighters ready to go.  Round 3 took Caucasus and launched Barbarossa all along European front.  Russia tried putting stacks of infantry along border (6-8) but it did no good as Germany was able to amass lots of men, artillery and tanks all along border.  Russia held tanks and artillery in reserve but did no counterattack so Germany just kept smashing along.  Poor choices by Russia this time I think.  By end of round 5, Germany had Moscow surrounded with nearly 3-1 advantage.  The Romanian Major IC and transports in the Black Sea really helped Germany get ahead fast, plus get the Middle-East NOs much earlier than usual.
Italy had a hard time in the Med with Britain and it went back and forth…  They must have exchanged Egypt 3 or 4 times before Italy finally got enough stuff there to be able to hold it.  UK couldn’t keep up with Italy’s builds plus keep chasing German submarines.
Japan overran China but left Russia alone at first.  Got a good size force in Burma ready to attack India but India attacked first and destroyed Japan’s invasion force.  US and Japanese fleets clash in Philippine Sea and annihilate each other.  However, US is making more money and can better replace their fleet, which they start doing.  Japan manages to take Hawaii and hold for 3 rounds.  US takes Hawaii back, but Japan takes Sydney.  Japan starting to build new navy to counter US.  Also with Minor ICs in Shanghai and Hong Kong, sending tanks toward Burma.  Japan’s air force down to about 1/3 of starting.
I don’t really see that much difference in Alpha 3.  The new AA gun rule is interesting and nearly cost Japan the Sydney battle with those 2 extra defense hit soaks.  Since Germany didn’t go after London, the “Russia attacking after London falls” rule didn’t apply.  I think the new Italian fleet layout helps the Italians a lot, and so does having a strat bomber.  Overall, I think the game still largely depends on the players skill, experience and choices.

I totally agree with you.  I think the 6-8 infantry wall is a bad choice for the Soviets. Better to buffer and counter when you can and stack a large force until you can build tanks to counter with them.

Love the idea of transports in SZ100.  Have to use that sometime.  At first I wasn’t sure about the Major in Romania since its not any closer to russia,  but coming to the middle easy in force with Germany and taking the Caucus and forcing the action southward surely would make taking lenningrad and the soviets therefore loosing archangel easier.  But if the Allies see it they may consider moving planes in range to hit it.  Did you have to defend your transports with a CVN?  or did you build an airbase there too?  Another good option. Never thought about an Under Southern Route of transports tanks and men hitting the Ukraine , caucus, and Rostov before.

@Eclipse:

@AllyAxis:

@coolrunner:

buy a navel base for hainan. Then you can go everywhere from there. And your fleet from japan can reach India in 2 moves with land units. They can also reach most of australia… Then it is easy to defend because of location…

Minor IC requires a 2 space.  Major a 3.  Hainan has a value of Zero.  No IC can be built.

Very true.  However, that restriction does not apply to Naval Bases or Airbases.  They can be built on any territory provided it was not captured that turn.  Naval Bases have the added restriction that they must be built on a territory with a coastline or on an island (obviously).

Personally, the Hainan island Naval Base is always in my J1 purchase and I usually consolidate the entire fleet there J1.  It forces an a very defensive build for UK(pacific) and forces them to consolidate everything to protect Calcutta.  It also makes for a great naval “triangle” between Hainan, Japan and the Carolines.

heck ya. I will have to try this strat next time I’m the Axis.  this recent game I didn’t go for the Pacific map,  but maybe next time I will .  seems totally logical for me to do both.  build a naval base and an IC and then upgrade it later to launch attacks into India and then western australia.  Of course I would need to take burma to get all the planes there,  but there are always plenty on carriers and such to fight it out with.  the tough part is getting Australia afterwards,  but I believe that if I can get India early enough anzac would have wasted resources on subs and bombers and such instead of immediately preparing for its defense.  I could get lucky and the allied player may never see that his navy and capitol are under serious threat,  but I doubt it.  Only thing is if I do take FIC and US enters the war,  I better have also hit the Aleutian Islands and the Phillipines on J1 ( US 10 IPC’s NO’s) and I’m not sure if I’m so ready to spread out so much on J1.

@mantlefan:

Thanks for the analysis AllyAxis.

One thing to note is that Russia also has 2 AA guns in Novgorod, so they cna actually have 4 in Moscow.

Very good point!!!  I will retreat them in the future when playing the Soviet Union if practical.  Better they survive to fight in the main onslaught than russia spending additional IPCs on air defese in the capitol.  I go back and forth on holding Lenningrad.  It depends upon Germany if I decide to hold it or not.  but anything to make Moscow harder to get is a good strat always.  thanks for the tip!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242698569100351.51790.100000806294654&l=9c9f52613f&type=1

this is the setup for Alpha 3.  I heard later I got a tactical bomber back.  but it didn’t matter.  I still took out the British Navy and took France.  AA gun missed totally.

Here is my turn 1 link.  I didn’t take pictures of America’s limited movement .  Not my best photo journal since I was busy worrying about playing the Axis.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242704939099714.51791.100000806294654&l=2aab661a53&type=1

@mantlefan:

Thanks for the analysis AllyAxis.

One thing to note is that Russia also has 2 AA guns in Novgorod, so they cna actually have 4 in Moscow. Also, IN most games I have played Germany can’t afford to send all of its planes to Moscow even jsut for that attack, so I don’t see 12 or less shots bothering the soviets that much. Let’s not forget the cumulative effects of those 4 extra hits over multiple rounds, either.

Did Japan ever get that new NO of theirs? Did Normandy or SZ 91 Survive Germany’s first turn? What did UK do to the Italian navy on round 1?

Obviously I haven’t seen the game but it seems like Itlay is having a pretty easy go of things even though UK barely had to worry about sealion.

I have already taken Lenningrad  and Moscow only has 2 AA guns.  They never moved them anywhere else and died in Lenningrad.  I have a plan but just in case my Allied player is reading I cannot reveal it yet.  I will be able to get more than 6 planes to moscow for sure before my final attack.  I am starting turn 7.

I took out the British Navy Turn 1  except for Canada and Sea Zone 109 destroyer /transport.

I went ALL AXIS on the Soviets  strategy.  So basically I only took land DEI, China  to generate IPC’s to build tanks.  I built a Major in Kiangsu on turn 3 and piped 7 tanks and 5 infantry and am currently sucking the life out of the Soviet Union.  So no .  I ignored the new NO completely.  I also Ignored Amur and went north of it and south of it.

British Navy attacked the Italian Battleship and  Cruiser but failed to take it. Italy survived with damaged battleship but I lost a scrambled fighter. no biggie the transport and Battleship were alive to fight another day with the cruiser destroyer sub and transport in SZ 95.

they did destroy the Malta Italian fleet SZ 96.  but he lost his entire navy in the Mediterranean and there was nothing he could do to deny my 5 IPC bonus for Italys entire game. he just didn’t have enough power the rest of the game with his navy unless america committed to it which they did not.  they went KJF  while I basically got cash built tanks headed west to Soviet russia fortified japan’s capital  and said screw the pacific map.

I will post links to my photo journal probably in a new thread.  Not my best photo journal but its something.  IF they will let me post links to my fb page where I host the images as public images.

I’m loading them now.  But it will take a while to label them .  I have them organized.