Subs-should you be able to pass over them with out consequences

Hey guys,

Been thinking of ways to make naval warfare more enticing in AA1914.

I think it is an opportunity to give something unique to both sides, so here’s what I was thinking.

For the Entente (Allies) : Freighters. You can build 1 per 8 land IPC you command, costs 3 IPC, 2 movement speed. Every time it ends its turn either next to a neutral country worth 2 IPCs or more or in the naval base of one of your allies (not your own), you gain 2 IPCs.

For the CPs (Axis):

Restricted Sub Warfare : Active from the game’s onset, on the British turn, every CP sub in sea zones 2, 7 and 8 roll and on a 3 or less, 1 IPC is deduced from the UK’s income. Unrestricted Sub Warfare : Active when declared by Germany. Same as above except that it applies to the UK and the US’ turns and every sub in those areas are automatic hits and 1 IPC is deduced. The Entente may remove one roll for every surface warship in those zones. Merchant Raiders : 3 IPCs, movement speed of 2. They are stealthy and can therefore sail past blockading enemies like subs do. Every turn they end up adjacent to an enemy territory, that enemy loses 1 IPC. If the territory is worth 2 IPCs or more, the lost IPC is instead transferred to the raider’s owner. Only 1 IPC per raider may be deducted and gained this way. To sink the raider, the Entente must send ships in that area to find it. Instead of normal combat, the Entente declares which ships is on “raider” duty. He gets 1 point per ship sent and then rolls a die. If the number rolled is equal to or less than the number of ships sent, the raider is found and destroyed (so if 3 ships are sent on patrol, a roll of 3 or less destroys the ship). He gets only one roll per turn. The CPs may only have one raider per 6 land IPCs they own.

I think this could make naval combat more fun and significant in the game, especially for the CPs who could see value in trying to take command of the seas or force the Allies to chase them around. On the Entente side, it would give some countries (Italy, USA particularly) a shot at boosting their IPCs and decide if they play the long economic game at the risk of lacking armies.

Let me know what you think !

No research other than Wikipedia.  That’s where I got the info on the middle east nations.  Was hoping someone could break down some other alliances:  for instance, invade x country and these countries had agreements to go to war, etc.

I’m not looking as much for house rules here, but more of an actual historical question.  Not as much “you should have this happen when you invade a country” but more along the lines of “this country had an agreement to go to war with these countries should they be invaded.”

@Zombie69:

Even though I don’t like house rules in general, I like the OP house rule in conjunction with the HR that allows submerging after one round against DD. The first HR makes subs a little weaker (can’t be used as fodder against planes) while the second makes them stronger (by letting them survive more battles). All in all, I think it balances out. It also has the advantage of being elegant and easy to use.

Glad you see it that way.
A still more simplified HR could be that keeping all OOB DDs rules with Subs and planes, each sides which have Destroyers must say whether or not Subs will be targeted in priority by planes.
If not, then anything but subs must be selected as planes casualties (unless their is nothing else except transports) by the owning player.

@toblerone77:

@knp7765:

I think destroyers should be able to bombard @ 2. In fact, I think all surface warships should have that ability.
The only thing that worries me is if destroyers can bombard @ 2 plus their ASW abilities and cheap price, that will start a new wave of people saying “Cruisers aren’t worth buying”.

Well FWIW I don’t mind adding some firepower especially if everyone can do it. I’m working with using the bunkers from HBG to have major and minor bunker complexes that soak hits even on islands. It really just depends on how far you want to diverge from OOB rules and what other units are going to come in to play.

A simple rule could be that all surface warships no matter their type boost +1 on a 1:1 ratio with land units for one round, and tweak it to your liking from there.Â

Interesting extrapolation.
It could be used by cruiser and BB in addition to their basic bombardment.
We can even consider more boosting power toward BB.
Cool. :-)

@lnmajor:

how about this?
place a roundel under a sub on the board to signify its submerged. it can only move 1 space per turn submerged. you must use ASW search roll of 1-2 to detect sub from destroyer or cruiser. surfaced sub can move 2 spaces per turn. ASW roll is 1-4 when sub is surfaced. now, on second turn, if sub remains submerged put second roundel under sub. beggining of 3rd turn submerged sub must surface for 1 turn no matter where it is. even if it has to surface strait into hostile ships and be attacked.

not a bad idea. The one benefit to having them off the board is the surprise factor.

Great ideas though…

notably American fleet carriers Yorktown and Wasp

and i thought it was the Japanese planes from the Hiryu that did her in.

The only capital ships that went down solely by subs were Wasp and Shinano.

If Japan sunk the Yorktown by subs ( i am quite sure she didn’t), that’s after the battle, while it was sitting and listing.

IN any case by AA standards subs dont interact with warships in WW2. It does not meet the threshold in terms of ability and hard numbers.

all destroyers and cruiser may fire an ASW attack roll or normal combat roll, regardless of submarine detection

in your example effectively all 4 ships can fire ASW attack roll at the 1 detected submarine

@Bierwagen:

Hey Axis_Roll – where can I find more discussion on the AARE ruleset?

The rules are a sticky here in A&A.org in this house rules section.
Much more discussion of Enhanced rules and game in progress are at the Gleemax/WOTC site: http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=747

Unfortunately, the powers that be at WOTC have choosen to end Gleemax sometime in September.  This comes less than one year after they shut down new posts from the OLD AH boards.  http://boards.avalonhill.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

There’s lots of good discussions back on the AH boards.