New Thoughts and Revisions After a Few Months of Playing

Good discussion. In my playgroup, NO’s off/Dardanelles closed/escort & interceptor allowed/tech allowed (but rarely used)/6-12 bid to allies (typically +2inf on eastern front, +1inf in Egypt, +1 inf in Yunan) seems to provide a fairly balanced game.

When we played with NOs on, the ability of the axis to couple their starting hardware advantage with near economic parity by round 2 or 3 (before the US is even “in the game”) always resulted in axis win. We didn’t take the time to figure out what the bid for the allies needs to be to have a balanced game with NOs on but I suspect it might be between 25-30 IPCs. Of course, our predictable play might be the actual issue!

Glad I could help.

Does the 1941 scenario even work without the NOs? I solitaired it for a bit once and the board seemed almost empty of units after about three turns. Germany collapsed because its lost income from the rather easy NOs really makes a difference. Japan seemed rather irrelevant since it takes longer to gain momentum without the NOs, and Germany falls sooner to a KGF.
The 1942 scenario seems better suited for a non-NO game because it´s got more starting units and the theaters are better balanced. Germany is stronger so a KGF will take longer and Asia has got more options since India won´t fall as easily, China is tougher and the US Pacific fleet is stronger.

I play without national objectives regularly.  IMHO, the key for the Axis is killing Russia. I have found that the best way to kill Russia is to do a combined Germany/Japan land assault.  However, this cannot be done if USA and GB are offloading on France/NWE-  Germany cannot guard the Atlantic borders and keep pressure on Russia.  My solution was simple.  Establish a chain supply of Japanese fighters to France for defense (2 per turn as of turn 3)  This accomplishes two things: one, defends France effectively and,two, forces the Allies to build navy to avoid losing their transports.  This allows Germany to send roughly half of their land forces to the Russia front. ( build only infantry and artillery since IPC’s are scarce from turn 3 forward)  This slows Japan down but is well worth it to keep pressure on Russia from Germany.  Also,  move the Japanese fleet to protect Italy from invasion.  Allies can’t amphibious assault Italy with a massive combined Italian/Japanese fleet in sea zone 14.

I build a German bomber on turns 1 & 2 to keep Britain off shores till turn 3, then the bombers become useful in swapping territories with Russia.

Honestly Func, you haven’t tried to play KGF if you think its boring.  It’s true it would be boring if the Allied opponent simply regurgitated Revised strategies, but that’s not how you play KGF in 41–KGF in 41 requires aggression and timing and closely coordinated attacking.

It’s true that KGF is harder for the Axis to play against, because Axis has to think hard to anticipate the 1-2-3 attacks and coordinated movements.  But I don’t mind the challenge…it’s more interesting to fight a KGF then to win an inevitable economic victory or quickly stomp Russia if the Allies divide their focus.

What I can say with certainty is its lots of fun to be Allies when executing a KGF strategy, especially the sort of aggressive KGF strategy that Gargantua is talking about above.   It’s more exciting to be Allies in AA50 then in any previous version of AA, partially due to the challenge involved, and partially due to KGF being much more exciting and diverse with the inclusion of Italy.

Ouch, thats some serious bad dice there Omega, uh… I mean Robert :p

AA50 is much more complex than revised, so it will take longer make safe conclusions. There are still some players who think there’s no need for bids in revised. But even if AA50 is as balanced as revised, its much easier to make big mistakes and lose games b/c of ineffective playing strats.
Its actually difficult to lose against axis (w/o bids) in revised if the allied player wants to win. This issue can be much more complex in AA50, b/c the game is more advanced, and it’s more difficult to know the most effective ways to win.

The last days I’ve seen several players not using bids in the lobby. So maybe more players are starting to learn allies better, which could mean that in the end a bid will be needed for axis…  :-)
Also, I’m not using bids when playing ADS.

I think I would have made China its own just to eliminate confusion with any nearby US forces sizing up an upcoming battle if nothing else.

LT