'God', the Facist

I’m not saying animals are inferior and we should not feel remorse in eating them, I’m saying that the relationship between humans and animals is similar as between living creatures and God. To an animal, say a squirrel, we appear to be omniscient and omnipotent. WE built these huge, strange box-like things that we go in and out of all the time. WE have these huge things that move that release all this gassy stuff. The animals see us as all-powerfulbecause of our great ability to create things such as structures. WE cna decide if the animals and plants shall live or die by how we run the world. Do we cut down this forest, or not? It is very similar with God. God has the power to create things that we cannot and can decide whether we will live or die. Does that make him a fascist? If so, then all people are fascists too, because we are like Gods ot the animals.

I always find comment about god a litte funny, you know comrade most religion have a different vision of god. No religion is able to make a logical, without any fallacies, argument for the concept of god, but they are extrapolating lots of behavior from nothing to create the perfect image of a creator… How do you know if god care ? Maybe he just want us to die ? Maybe he just want us to fight so he could sit with popcorn and watch us because he is bored. You cannot make any argument for god, any interpretation is therefore very subjective…

Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?

About animals and us, you would be like god to a primitive human still he is very similar to you. Anyway you are exactly doing what i said; you say we are not equal to animals but you just accept this conclusion witout any reason, why do you believe we are superior/not equal to animals ? There is a reason or it just suited your belief ?

And sure this is not facism but it is close… Even the word animals often exclude us, still we are very similar to Gorilla but they are animals, we are not. This is coherent ?

I believe that following a religion does help the world. Many religions encourage good relations between people, I know mine does. Religion also helps to inspire people to do things. When you are being taught to help people in your religion, will it not influence you to do so?

It certainly does not only bad thing… but it is not a contributor to humanity, it’s more like a burden… I really wish i could see the day were humanity would live for the progress of humanity, with reason and creativy, without fantasies. I will never see that day, but at least i am working for my future childrend and grandchildrens so they might see that day; we call that humanism.

@FinsterniS:

Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?

Of course you omit the fact that many Nazi’s were followers of Nietzsche who managed to twist his theories into support of he superiority of a German race . . . . You always appear to try to make Christians and “the Christian God” out to be the bad guy.

About animals and us, you would be like god to a primitive human still he is very similar to you. Anyway you are exactly doing what i said; you say we are not equal to animals but you just accept this conclusion witout any reason, why do you believe we are superior/not equal to animals ? There is a reason or it just suited your belief ?

I wonder what Freud would have said about this.
Is it because we may (though we do not always) keep our animal instincts in check, answering more to our reasoning?
If we were on the same level as the animals, following our animal instinct, I dare say this conversation would be impossible as I would be out eating and having sex right now.

I believe that following a religion does help the world. Many religions encourage good relations between people, I know mine does. Religion also helps to inspire people to do things. When you are being taught to help people in your religion, will it not influence you to do so?

It certainly does not only bad thing… but it is not a contributor to humanity, it’s more like a burden… I really wish i could see the day were humanity would live for the progress of humanity, with reason and creativy, without fantasies. I will never see that day, but at least i am working for my future childrend and grandchildrens so they might see that day; we call that humanism.

Some (myself included) would argue that Jesus was a great humanist (and feminist). If people do good things for the world compelled by their love for JC, then how is this such a great burden? Many people do this, daily, bringing light, peace, food, water, literacy, medical care, etc. to very uncomfortable parts of the world and they do this in the name of Jesus, and they believe that the love of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit gives them the strength and will to do this. They work with love, creativity, using all their faculties (including reason), whereas the fantasy is the rainbow at the end of the rain. How is this a burden? How is this not humanistic?
Jesus once said “whoever is not against us is for us” - I believe this to mean that people who work towards a common goal should be united and strengthened by this. You seem to say that they should be divided with some of them eliminated (or at least their reasons for doing good should be eliminated).

@cystic:

@FinsterniS:

Hitler believe god want to exterminate the jew. How can you consider he was not right if you cannot even know what god is exept with blind faith ?

Of course you omit the fact that many Nazi’s were followers of Nietzsche who managed to twist his theories into support of he superiority of a German race . . . . You always appear to try to make Christians and “the Christian God” out to be the bad guy.

I can only admire you and emugod for your technique, you never answer anything i ask… My question is still the same, why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?

About Nietzsche you know i have said SEVERALS time there was a great distinction between a doctrine and those who apply it, that is why i do not claim thing like “christian are hatefull”, but Christianism AND christian are working against evolution. Also if you read just a little Nietzsche, you will see how much he dislike germans and antisemitism… Note also that even if Nietzsche influence my a lot i do not consider myself a Nietzschean.

About Animals again you did not answer me.

Why Humans are superior/not equal to Animals ?

CC you have certainly work with biology ! We are as animals as a cats, our brain just give us the biggest culture on earth; we are still animals, acting like animals. I have some difficulties to understand that; all your life CC you will act like an animals, you will try to approch/impress woman, you will think of her, you will maybe even get in competition with other male, you will try to live, you will have passions, still you will deny you are an animals ?.. animals with technology and with a big culture but this does not make us apart from the animal kingdom. And as strong as the christians denial is on the subject; we have no reason to believe Humanity is apart from Animality, we call than anthropocentism and this is not a very nuanced standpoint.

Some (myself included) would argue that Jesus was a great humanist (and feminist). If people do good things for the world compelled by their love for JC, then how is this such a great burden? Many people do this, daily, bringing light, peace, food, water, literacy, medical care, etc. to very uncomfortable parts of the world and they do this in the name of Jesus, and they believe that the love of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit gives them the strength and will to do this. They work with love, creativity, using all their faculties (including reason), whereas the fantasy is the rainbow at the end of the rain. How is this a burden? How is this not humanistic?

Jesus was maybe an humanist 2 000 year ago, but his follower and his doctrine are now only teaching obscurantism.

Jesus once said “whoever is not against us is for us” - I believe this to mean that people who work towards a common goal should be united and strengthened by this. You seem to say that they should be divided with some of them eliminated (or at least their reasons for doing good should be eliminated).

Undoubly i am AGAINST jesus, i am for my species and for my planet, not for fantaisies and i believe it is important that thinkers continue the war (philosophical) for humanism.

So my two question (to be sure you answer them).
1; why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?
2; how Humanity can be superior/not equal to Animality ?

:lol:

Wild2000 - We usually don’t agree, but excellent response!

oh boy.

@FinsterniS:

I can only admire you and emugod for your technique, you never answer anything i ask… My question is still the same, why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?

With regards to my “technique” i many times have trouble determining if you are actually asking me a “valid” question, or a rhetorical one. Many of your questions to me require thought and knowlege that i have not the luxury of so i assume they are rhetorical. Forgive any apparent rudeness please.

About Nietzsche you know i have said SEVERALS time there was a great distinction between a doctrine and those who apply it, that is why i do not claim thing like “christian are hatefull”, but Christianism AND christian are working against evolution. Also if you read just a little Nietzsche, you will see how much he dislike germans and antisemitism… Note also that even if Nietzsche influence my a lot i do not consider myself a Nietzschean.

True. I just wanted to make the same clarification that you were making as all too often people here take shots at Christianity because of “Christians” who do not practice Christ’s teachings, and indeed perform acts opposite to Christ’s ways.
also “Christianism and christian” do not work against evolution so much as work for God’s glory - through helping people, and spreading the “good news” gospel. The anti-evolution sidebar is something that you seem to focus quite a bit on.

About Animals again you did not answer me.

Why Humans are superior/not equal to Animals ?

CC you have certainly work with biology ! We are as animals as a cats, our brain just give us the biggest culture on earth; we are still animals, acting like animals. I have some difficulties to understand that; all your life CC you will act like an animals, you will try to approch/impress woman, you will think of her, you will maybe even get in competition with other male, you will try to live, you will have passions, still you will deny you are an animals ?… animals with technology and with a big culture but this does not make us apart from the animal kingdom. And as strong as the christians denial is on the subject; we have no reason to believe Humanity is apart from Animality, we call than anthropocentism and this is not a very nuanced standpoint.?

Actually i have not answered as i did not consider myself a big player in this debate. I threw in a couple of arguments for fun, but i don’t really have an argument for this aside from the ones i’ve given in previous posts.

Some (myself included) would argue that Jesus was a great humanist (and feminist). If people do good things for the world compelled by their love for JC, then how is this such a great burden? Many people do this, daily, bringing light, peace, food, water, literacy, medical care, etc. to very uncomfortable parts of the world and they do this in the name of Jesus, and they believe that the love of Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit gives them the strength and will to do this. They work with love, creativity, using all their faculties (including reason), whereas the fantasy is the rainbow at the end of the rain. How is this a burden? How is this not humanistic?

Jesus was maybe an humanist 2 000 year ago, but his follower and his doctrine are now only teaching obscurantism.

obscurantism? really? you think obscurantism? wow.
Wait - let me look up obscurantism - i really don’t know what that word means. I wonder if i’ve been teaching obscurantism all this time and didn’t realize it. Weird.

Jesus once said “whoever is not against us is for us” - I believe this to mean that people who work towards a common goal should be united and strengthened by this. You seem to say that they should be divided with some of them eliminated (or at least their reasons for doing good should be eliminated).

Undoubly i am AGAINST jesus, i am for my species and for my planet, not for fantaisies and i believe it is important that thinkers continue the war (philosophical) for humanism.

Fantasies? Which ones? All of the bible, or just the parts that you don’t agree with?
The war? How violent. I think it’s important for everyone to continue to be nice to people and help people (obviously to know Jesus) but does the war for humanism mean a war against Christianity or deism or religion?

So my two question (to be sure you answer them).
1; why Hitler’s interpretation of god is less accurate than yours as you can only see god with faith ?
2; how Humanity can be superior/not equal to Animality ?

1. That depends on a lot of things. I don’t really know Hitler’s interpretation of God, do i? I mean he may have talked about God, and used God to justify his actions, but did he believe that God justified them before he was to commit them, or did he rationalize that “this would be the way God wanted things”?
   Basically the answer right now is “i don’t know”. Hitler did a terrible job of applying any of Jesus’ teachings as recorded by the bible, and that’s the book i go by for things like this, so that’s about the only reason i can give.
2. Well, i’ve already addressed this in another post you tried to tear apart already. I don’t feel like bringing it up or researching for it. Suffice it to say:
3. God/The Bible says
4. Our level of insight into the matter - the fact that we can even question this.
5. I have a desire to eat sentient-being-consuming-animals to put myself at the top of the food chain
6. a bunch of other ones.
   Why is this question so important tho’? I certainly can not answer it well, as i’ve only researched using lab rats, and i’ve conditioned myself to believing (kind of like Hitler, if you will) that i have authority over animals. If i couldn’t do that then i wouldn’t have been able to sacrifice the poor buggers for my research.

How can your god be more valid if you cannot prove him with logic ?

No religion is able to make a logical, without any fallacies, argument for the concept of god,

I would like to ask if you have read, or heard any of C.S. Lewis’s stuff.

obscurantism? really? you think obscurantism? wow.
Wait - let me look up obscurantism - i really don’t know what that word means. I wonder if i’ve been teaching obscurantism all this time and didn’t realize it. Weird.

You are not teaching christianism as far as i know.

Fantasies? Which ones? All of the bible, or just the parts that you don’t agree with?

The part with god, angels, deamons, heaven, hell, unicorn, giant and dragon… well most of the bible.

The war? How violent. I think it’s important for everyone to continue to be nice to people and help people (obviously to know Jesus) but does the war for humanism mean a war against Christianity or deism or religion?

From my standpoint it is, because religion is useless, only a burden for science, philosophie and reason. Religion make people believe in simple thing, reductionist thing, and this is certainly not a good thing for anything. If you do not want to think; get into religion.

Why is this question so important tho’? I certainly can not answer it well, as i’ve only researched using lab rats, and i’ve conditioned myself to believing (kind of like Hitler, if you will) that i have authority over animals. If i couldn’t do that then i wouldn’t have been able to sacrifice the poor buggers for my research.

It is important because there is no reason to believe in our so called superiory and we would need one day to stop deaming about our supremacy on the earth and our destiny in the universe.

Bangalor; no i did not read nor heard or C.S Lewis and i really doupt he have any king of valid argument for the “theory” of god.

Sure i am not very good in english but obscurantism IS an english word.

Obscurantism
a policy of opposition to enlightenment or the spread of knowledge

:lol:

@F_alk:

@cystic:

obscurantism? really? you think obscurantism? wow.
Wait - let me look up obscurantism - i really don’t know what that word means. I wonder if i’ve been teaching obscurantism all this time and didn’t realize it. Weird.

Booooooh !

CC, you know that english is not my or Finsternis first languange. With a bit of fantasy, you can clearly see what this word up there is made of:
obscure - tism ……

This is at least the second time that you pick on FinsterniS’ english. Not really fair, i must say.
I mean, i could go and smack a lot of ppl here for mistakes they make… even though they are the native-english-speakers…

Or maybe we should try to find a language that is second (or third or more) to all of us… and just see what happens then:
So, what about Latin? A language that every catholic should know :) …

i honestly did not know.
I figured that this was either a neologism or a word i’d never heard before.
Given that most of the Christians i know hold university degrees, are scientists, doctors or otherwise quite well educated and the like, and the fact that most universities until the 20th century were run by various churches (and still there are many colleges and universities that are run by Christian organizations) that are aimed towards promoting truth and “enlightenment” this definition escaped me. Furthermore, I try to be a voice of reason and i try to study, open my mind up to “possibilitites”. Few Christians that i know are so for superstitious reasons, nor do any of them teach a policy opposed to enlightenment or the spread of knowledge. Quite the opposite, really. Maybe i just know the wrong (or right) people.
Also, although i am a Mennonite, my German is VERY rusty (and don’t even ask about my plautdietsche - my grandparents would be sooooo ashamed), never mind my latin - which no Mennonites held on to since Menno Simons.

@FinsterniS:

The war? How violent. I think it’s important for everyone to continue to be nice to people and help people (obviously to know Jesus) but does the war for humanism mean a war against Christianity or deism or religion?

From my standpoint it is, because religion is useless, only a burden for science, philosophie and reason. Religion make people believe in simple thing, reductionist thing, and this is certainly not a good thing for anything. If you do not want to think; get into religion.

If I don’t want to think, I should get into a religion? Now that’s pushing it. Take a look at the Jewish book of law, the Talmud. It is much harder than any subject I have ever learned. It requires lots of thinking to learn and can be very difficult to understand. In one year, I have gotten through maybe 4 pages of one tractate of Talmud, and that’s with studying it every day. Religion is not so simple as you think it is.

About Hitler’s nterpretation of the bible, there is a difference when you analyze something whne you are sane rather than when you are insane, like Hitler was. He was mentally unstable. To believe what he says in such a medical condition requires you to be very gullible. Also, when you interpret something, such as the Bible, you should be able to prove your thoughts.

Oh and about the criticism about your English, I dont think it’s very nice. My first language isn’t English either,and I’d hate to be insulted for it.

“Ich finde, wir koennen hier auch ne Privat-Unterhaltung starten.”

We’ve started a private conversation?

“Und ich hab keine Ahnung, ob das Wort englisch ist oder nicht…… aber selbst wenn nicht, könnte man leicht ahnen, worum es gehen soll.”

You don’t know if it’s a word but you understand the meaning, if I am correct in translating what you said.

@EmuGod:

Oh and about the criticism about your English, I dont think it’s very nice. My first language isn’t English either,and I’d hate to be insulted for it.

“Ich finde, wir koennen hier auch ne Privat-Unterhaltung starten.”

We’ve started a private conversation?

“Und ich hab keine Ahnung, ob das Wort englisch ist oder nicht…… aber selbst wenn nicht, könnte man leicht ahnen, worum es gehen soll.”

You don’t know if it’s a word but you understand the meaning, if I am correct in translating what you said.

Oh for goodness sake! I honestly did not know what FinsterniS was talking about. He’s accused me of “fanaticism” which i originally took as meaning “practicing a fantasy” and later realized that he was calling me a fanatic. I’ve learned not to assume anything on these boards - when i assume one is referencing me, being rhetorical, not being rhetorical, joking, being serious, etc. i often find out that i’m wrong. When accused of practicing something (teaching obsuraticsism or however its spelled) i’m not going to assume that my accuser is being accurate.
Please, i’m above poking fun at people because of language. My English is passable, my french would help me survive Montreal, my German is now virtually non-existant, and my Portuguese is struggling to say the least.
Now could this rest until i’m accused of practicing/teaching something else that i don’t understand?

If I don’t want to think, I should get into a religion? Now that’s pushing it. Take a look at the Jewish book of law, the Talmud. It is much harder than any subject I have ever learned. It requires lots of thinking to learn and can be very difficult to understand. In one year, I have gotten through maybe 4 pages of one tractate of Talmud, and that’s with studying it every day. Religion is not so simple as you think it is.

I know some religion are more complex than other, some are even worthy of attention like buddhism and hinduim. To be honest i know a little about some mythology (German, Celtic, Greek, Roman) and some religion (Christianism, Hinduism, Buddhism) but if there is one religion i know nothing about this is Judaism and i would be very pleased if you can answer some questions to me.

• Is jesus a false prophet or one of many minor prophet ?
• Is there a savior ?
• Is there heaven and hell ?
• Is there good and evil ?
• Is there an apocalypse ?
• Miracle are important ?
• How the jews consider themself in their religion ?

About Hitler’s nterpretation of the bible, there is a difference when you analyze something whne you are sane rather than when you are insane, like Hitler was. He was mentally unstable. To believe what he says in such a medical condition requires you to be very gullible. Also, when you interpret something, such as the Bible, you should be able to prove your thoughts.

I admit my comparaison with hitler was’nt a very good analogy. You say we “should be able to prove your thoughts”… anyway it does not work with me and Christianism and i doupt there is a lot of people who tried as hard as me to “believe” in a logical god.

I just want to point out that if we cannot prove a religion (or at least prove it is probable) with logic and intellelect, all religion are as valid as the other. Zeus, Odin, Cernunnos, Belenos, Wotan, Allah, they are all equally valid as god.

Oh for goodness sake! I honestly did not know what FinsterniS was talking about. He’s accused me of “fanaticism” which i originally took as meaning “practicing a fantasy” and later realized that he was calling me a fanatic.

Well i am sorry if i am hard to understand sometime.

and the fact that most universities until the 20th century were run by various churches (and still there are many colleges and universities that are run by Christian organizations) that are aimed towards promoting truth and “enlightenment” this definition escaped me.

If a christian is teaching math, he is not teaching obscurantism.
If a christian is teaching christianism, he is teaching obscurantism.

Newton (a christian) was not teaching obscurantism, he was not teaching christianism and did not discor anything with christianism.

und Falk, ich schlafe nie… langweilig

@Yanny:

Boy Scouts are incredible Secular. I’m sorry I got so pissed, but the Boy Scouts have been an increasing problem for me. The leaders in my troop are 100% incredible conservative hardcore Catholics. I mean fanatics. My Parents are offical Catholics, though not hardcore ones. This makes them think I am Catholic. So, I am not forfilling my Boy Scout Religious Duties by not going to Church on Sundays. And they won’t advance me in rank because of it.

No offense, but do Boy Scouts really matter? If they piss you off so much, why don’t you just quit. Sounds like a raw deal to me…

This is all the German I know
Los Los Los

Just for the record. No, I’m not a fascist. End of story.

P.S. - Somebody is going to get a lightning bolt up their ass… :evil:

cough Yanny here, I know who you are… false God!