We should not attack Iraq

I’m not even a Jew and I took offence to that. But enlighten us Yanny, what are the many reasons to dislike Israel?

I actually support the attack on Iraq because I feel he is capable of lots of trouble. In Israel they have started Small Pox vaccinations just in case. I think he has to be removed from power for the safety of the entire region and even the world.

I belive you are referring to the meeting in Durban, South Africa but that was only one “emergency meeting” of many. It isn’t just the UN, it’s embedded in Christian culture. After the Holocaust, the anti-semitic beliefs were removed from the Church but I believe that Anti-semitism is still subconsciously still in Christian culture due to the thousands of years of hate toward Jews.

@Yanny:

Israel, oh there are many reasons. Heres just a sampling.

1. The Israelis violate more UN resolutions than even the Us.
2. The Israelis have been occupying parts of 4 countries over 30 years.
3. The Israelis waste more of my tax dollars than any other country.
4. If Israel wouldn’t be there, the Twin Towers would.
5. Israel practically has our Goverment under it’s control. I suspect Blackmail.
6. Israel is ultra-conservative. I hate conservatives.
7. Israel is a Theocracy.
8. Israel killed a great friend of mine.

This is clearly an upsetting topic for you given point number “8” and i can understand someone hating (for a while) in this circumstance.
as for parts 1-7 there are too many reasons why this is bizaare and ridiculous.

1. If it’s true, then Big Deal. They are worse than the US (and still “better” than many other countries). The US has violated more UN resolutions than even Canada has - is that a good reason to hate them?
2. I"m sure the US has occupied more countries than that for a lot longer. As well Britain, France, etc. Also where is the line drawn between “occupy” and “habitate”?
3. Big deal. One country has to “waste” (depending on your definition of waste) more tax dollars than any other - why not a very young, fledgling nation that has had all of its surrounding neighbours threaten, attack, and terroize it over and over again in its short history?
4. If Afghanistan, or almost any other country did not exist then the twin towers might still exist. Even Canada might be blamed in some way by some person.
5. How ridiculous. I guess Kissinger had pix of Nixon sodomizing a young boy too. Israel has no more control over the US than China, Russia, Canada, or any number of other countries
6. A large part of the US is ultra-conservative. You must deal with this whole “hate” thing.
7. Big deal. George Bush is the president of America - no government system is perfect. Also people who tend to rule Israel tend to be elected and tend to be very good (minimally appropriately) at thier jobs - not simply religious figures.
8. I’m very sorry about the loss of your friend. Death under nearly any circumstance, especially at the hands of an organization/government , is certainly tragic

Well no there is no reason to hate israrel, it’s not like religion, they do not spread lies everywhere just to feel good.

I have only one real friction with the jew and it’s their tendency to call “anti-semitic” every critic. In germany there a Social-democrat that was called anti-semitic, and if you read what he say you will know he is not. Same thing goes in Quebec (the family of my girlfriend live there), some independentist are accused of anti-semitism for no reason… there is paranoia somewhere… European leader are not anti-semitic, but as some does not support israel they are call anti-semitic…

I don’t think they are right with the palestinian, surely i am not for the Hamas but they destroy so much, so much children cannot get education and how many palestinian were killed for some poor religious fanatic… Sharon is even worst than Arafat.

Also you are right that some euro-jew have contributed a lot for science, not “unmatched contribution” but still a great one…

@Yanny:

Israel, oh there are many reasons. Heres just a sampling.

1. The Israelis violate more UN resolutions than even the Us.
2. The Israelis have been occupying parts of 4 countries over 30 years.
3. The Israelis waste more of my tax dollars than any other country.
4. If Israel wouldn’t be there, the Twin Towers would.
5. Israel practically has our Goverment under it’s control. I suspect Blackmail.
6. Israel is ultra-conservative. I hate conservatives.
7. Israel is a Theocracy.
8. Israel killed a great friend of mine.

1. When the body that is supposed to settle disputed ina fair way is biased, I dont think you will listen to them. Besides, the UN has no real power.

2. I do not see what 4 countries you are referring to? Gaza was part of Egypt, the West Bank part of Jordan and the Goland Heights part of Syria. Thatmakes 3 countries and two of them have signed peace with Israel, therefore accepting Israeli control of these areas. So that leaves the Golan Heights with Syria, which is still under hot dispute. Also, Israel have overall returned about 95% of the land it has captued in DEFENSIVE combat.

3. I do not believe it is wasting money to help out countries. Helping Africa isn’t a waste of money, so why is this wasting it?

4. The Twin Towers was a disaster waiting to happen, with or without Israel. You;re playing “would’ve, should’ve, could’ve” history and we will never know what would have happened so your reasoning is flawed.

5. Israel doesn’t control the United States government, that one of the worst conspiracy theories I’ve heard of.

6. Ultra-conservative? Not really. The people are very polarizedi n the political spectrum there.

7. Israel is a Democracy and is not exactly a theocracy. It is not secular eithe, but rather somewhere in between. I do not see what is so bad about being a theocracy. Democracy isn’t a perfect system either. As Winston Churchill once put it, “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

8. I’m sorry for the loss of your friend, but I know for a fact that the IDF didn’t see him and say, “well look at this person. He’s Yanny’s friend so we should kill him/her.” Your friend died in the crossfire, which is very unfortunate but it happens. I feel horrible that this happened to you, but it is no reason to blame a whole country for. I don’t hate Palestinians even though I knew a person who died in a suicide bombing. A friend of mine lots his cousin in a terrorist attack and he doesn’t hate the Palestinians nor any other Arabs. The IDF, unlike the Palestinians and other armies, have very specific rules about when their soldiers can fire agaisnt the enemy targets. If your friend was in the way, then it is horrilbe but these things do happen in war. It shows you the horrible effects of wars, but you don’t blame a country and hate it for accidently killing a friend of yours.

@Yanny:

Lebanon/Egypt/Syria/Jorden (not counting Palestine here)

#5 is more of my speculation. In the first few weeks when Israel invaded Ramallaah and kept Arafat stuck in his compound, President Busch was being odd. Every few hours he would change his opinion, at first being very very strong against the Israelis, then the next day doing a complete 180 and being tough verse Arafat. Eventually he just ignored Arafat (while he was stuck in his compound, unable to do anything) and sided with Israel.

We do not give anything Israel citizens need to survive to Israel. We give them 3 billion in weapons.

If we had not been involved so heavily with Israel, the terrorists would never of attacked us.

It says a lot about Israelis if they elected Sharon. Hell, they had a Prime Minister lobby for peace!! And they impeached him (or whatever the Israeli word for that is).

I have nothing against the Israeli people. I don’t think you should pack up and leave. But your just inviting violence by occupying the West Bank, Golan Heights, and Gaza Strip. Yes, its a military occupation. A dictatorship over a smaller country.

Sharon is for peace, it’s simply his method of achieving peace that is different from Barak’s. Also, you are making it sound like Sharon is like hte President of the United States in that he makes all the decisions. He does not. He has to make them with the Israle parliament, and they have threatened to break down his coalition government several times and may actually do so if he is not careful with his policies. The occupation of the West Bank, Faza, and the Golan Heighets could have been settled back in 1967, if the Arabs had wanted to negotiate. Also, the Palestinians dont just want those areas, but rather the entire land for themselves. By the way, there are no problems with the Palestinians in the Golan Heights. It’s the Syrians who want the Golan Heights back, but they refuse to negotiate until Israel unilaterally withdraws, which is not possible, especially not after what the results were iin Lebanon.

Osama and the terrorists that are attacking the United States are attacking it for a somewhat different reason than Israel. THey are attacking America for appearing to want to be imperialistic in the Middle East, for actions in the Gulf War specifically. These Arabs despise capitalism, because America is rich and has left the Arab countries poor. That’s why the attack was on the World Trade Centre. It represented America’s capitalistic economy and that’s what Bin Laden wanted to destroy.

@Yanny:

Israel currently occupies 100% of Palestine. The Palestinians would be happy for 22%.

Israel attacked first in 67! It was a pre-emptive strike, yes, but so was Pearl Harbor.

Sharon for peace? Ha! Sharon would make a great dictator. He’s worse than Arafat (who, I admit, is a horrible leader).

I hate to tell you this, Yanny, but there is no Palestine and there never was a Palestine. The attack in 1967 is hotly debated, but it is generally agreed upon by everyone that the Arbs started the six Day war of 1967. Even they agree to it.

Yanny Said:

1. The Israelis violate more UN resolutions than even the Us.
2. The Israelis have been occupying parts of 4 countries over 30 years.
3. The Israelis waste more of my tax dollars than any other country.
4. If Israel wouldn’t be there, the Twin Towers would.
5. Israel practically has our Goverment under it’s control. I suspect Blackmail.
6. Israel is ultra-conservative. I hate conservatives.
7. Israel is a Theocracy.
8. Israel killed a great friend of mine.

I fell out of my chair when i read this. Swear to god.

1. Stupid rules are meant to be broken. If the U.N. told us not to attack a group of people, we would tell em to go pound sand.
2. “Occipied” i love it. How dare they “Occupy” land that they have taken in wars with other nations. In fact how dare we “Occupy” California and Texas.
3. Ok, i got nothing about taxes.
4. The twin towers comment. Rabid anti semitism(spelling?). I am a Catholic and was stunned by that. Facts…
6. You hate conservatives. Ya should never judge the whole the those you have met. Those you judge the group by the whole are nothing but a pea wit.
7. Israel is a theocracy. I got nothing.
8. How did the country kill a friend of yours?

Yanny said:

Israel currently occupies 100% of Palestine. The Palestinians would be happy for 22%.

Israel attacked first in 67! It was a pre-emptive strike, yes, but so was Pearl Harbor.

How can you occupy 100%of a non-existant country? Why dont they occupy the marry ol’ land of Oz next. They would not be happy with 22% because they were offered 96% and turned it down.

Saying that the Israel strike in 67 was the same as the Japanese in WWII is cooky. I did not now that goal of the Israeli attack was to expand the empire for the emporer like the Japanese did. Was the United States massing troops along our border with Japan when they attacked us? Show us how they are similar.

You had better say the same about the British. After all they attacked the French fleet in WWII.

Comparing Israel to Japan is like comparing apples to oranges…

It would be nice if there were never wars and borders never changed, but it does happen.

I dont think Gaza and the West bank are mine, I think they belong to Israel. Cause they do. It is not a different country because Palistine is not a county.

What does the cold war have to do with anything? I wasn’t alive durring the cold war. And the fact that you presume to know the reasons why I like or dislike something is ludacris.

I am sorry your friend was shot but that is no excuse to hate an entire country. My great uncle survived the Bataan Death March and yet I manage to make through my daily life without hating Japan.

Out of curiosity, how did it happen? Was he walking down the street and get hit by a stray bullet or what?_________________

I dont have info on the inner workings of the Israeli government so i cant comment on that.

As for your other analogy, i do like it better. :)

@Yanny:

All his family told me was he was outside taking pictures of their ruined house when it happened.

If Israel considers the West Bank and Gaza theirs, why do they treat the Palestinians living there as second class citizens? They literally have no rights. They are forced to stay into their house 20 hours a day. They cannot vote, their tax money doesn’t do anything for them, it just helps Israel. Their democratically elected leader is constantly under fire.

You don’t like the Pearl harbor comparison, ok. Israel treats the West Bank as Russia treated Ukraine.

Democracy in Islam? You have no clue what you’re talking about. Yasser Arafat wasn’t elected by anyone. The reason the Palestinians cannot vote is because they are not Israeli citiznes, but rather Jordanian and Egyptian citizens. They are autonomous if you didn’t know. In the 1960s-1970s, the PA received control of some of their civil services and following the Oslo Accords, 97% of them were put under FULL PA control. If their lives are miserable, it’s Arafat’s fault. He has control over their daily lives and he is in charge of them. Israel does not treat the West Bank like Russia treated the Ukraine because the Ukrainians were Soviet citizens, and the Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. The Palestinians are autonomous, and the Ukrainians never were.

Good show Emu.

@Yanny:

Yassar Arafat has been elected twice. Once after the Oslo accords and once just a few months ago.

Either A) End the Occupation or B) Grant these “Foreign” citizens Israeli citizenship.

Diplomacy is about compromise. Your opinion wants everything.

The Palestinians received TWO offers giving them almost everything they wanted, one at Camp David and one at Taba.

The Taba Offer included:

-100% of Gaza
-95% of West Bank
-other 5% made up of ISraeli negev
-East Jerusalem
-Settlements removed

THe Palestinians REJECTED this offer because they don’t actually want a country. Check out what I posted on the other thread about things going bump in the night. The quotations there by British, American, Arab and even Palestinian leaders proves their true intentions.