We should not attack Iraq

Hahaha, I would think old folks (like your father) would see little in war.

Why are you surprised?

I would actually think that (despite watching their buddy’s die) that they would witness first-hands the benefits of what our wars have brought us.

BTW,
now that the UN and Iraq have come to an agreement on letting back the inspecteurs, with free access except to the 8 palaces……
and the US threatening to veto it (which legally is impossible, but still would have a major impact: in strengthening the Iraq as they know that the inspectors are not “fully backed” by the UN…)

What do you say to that: The US gov’ not only says as open as they can that it’s not about the weapons but about the man, and has no trouble in accusing the UN to be a “debaters club” and threatening to turn it into one once they get their will ('cause that’s what happens, when the UK/US-resolution should be accepted, taking away any influence the UN has, blackmailing them into submission, noone will ever take any UN-threat seriously after that)…

So, your opinions?

@TG:

Hahaha, I would think old folks (like your father) would see little in war.

Dad was born in '48 - his father was in the military during the war, as were his uncles, but he lived in the boom times that followed the war. Also he’s getting more and more conservative in his old age. Kind of an interesting progression from the man who started and worked nights in an inner city clinic designed to help the very poor and destitute.

now that the UN and Iraq have come to an agreement on letting back the inspecteurs, with free access except to the 8 palaces……

Hmmmm… looks like you also forgot to include the 12 square miles of land and more than 1,000 buildings around Hussein’s palaces (under the agreement). :-?

your opinions?

I think that the time has come to dissolve the UN and set up the 5th International…

T_6,
Good call on both the 12 sq. miles/1,000 buildings and the 5th International…

The Bush Admin is giving France (the Up Yours! We are Ingrates Bunch) about two more weeks. Then we go with a Non UN Alliance. The rest of the world can do it without France(or Germany for that matter.)

Q: How many B1Bs and B2s does it take to flatten an Iraqi palace?
A: One of either will do. Though the palaces
will mushroom themselves before flattening. - Xi :lol:

The Bush Admin is giving France (the Up Yours! We are Ingrates Bunch) about two more weeks. Then we go with a Non UN Alliance. The rest of the world can do it without France(or Germany for that matter.)

But, but… France and Germany are our friends!

@F_alk:

BTW,
now that the UN and Iraq have come to an agreement on letting back the inspecteurs, with free access except to the 8 palaces……
and the US threatening to veto it (which legally is impossible, but still would have a major impact: in strengthening the Iraq as they know that the inspectors are not “fully backed” by the UN…)

What do you say to that: The US gov’ not only says as open as they can that it’s not about the weapons but about the man, and has no trouble in accusing the UN to be a “debaters club” and threatening to turn it into one once they get their will ('cause that’s what happens, when the UK/US-resolution should be accepted, taking away any influence the UN has, blackmailing them into submission, noone will ever take any UN-threat seriously after that)…

So, your opinions?

I think the UN is being too “politically correct” in terms of it’s foreign policy. The UN knows Saddam is dangerous. The problem is with the fact that the UN is comprised of so many nations that resent us, they’d would love to see nothing more than a slap in the American’s face.

Don’t worry, we’ve already seen how little the UN weapons inspectors can do. There’s no possible way that they’ll find all the weapons that Saddam possesses. At least they can’t blame the US for not trying (although they probably will anyways) when our allies get attacked with the nuclear weapon that Saddam will have in 3 months.

@TG:

France and Germany are our friends!

Nah! one is Ungrateful (I am repeating myself here,)
and the other has invested more in our country than anywhere else in the world. They’ll take profit from our hardwork, but when it come time to put out …
Looks like we’re gonna havta ben her ova da back
ob da divan an let hur havit! Beg for more, baby!
Sorry, I enjoyed that movie too much
the last 47 times I saw it. - Xi

What movie was that?

@Deviant:Scripter:

I think the UN is being too “politically correct” in terms of it’s foreign policy. The UN knows Saddam is dangerous. The problem is with the fact that the UN is comprised of so many nations that resent us, they’d would love to see nothing more than a slap in the American’s face.

Don’t worry, we’ve already seen how little the UN weapons inspectors can do. There’s no possible way that they’ll find all the weapons that Saddam possesses. At least they can’t blame the US for not trying (although they probably will anyways) when our allies get attacked with the nuclear weapon that Saddam will have in 3 months.

I agree on the “never all the weapons”, but disagree on nearly all the rest :)

I agree on the “never all the weapons”, but disagree on nearly all the rest.

So you agree with the fact that UN weapons inspectors will never find all the weapons? Then why are we wasting our time and implanting a false security into the rest of the world by using inspectors? Saddam will continue to develope these weapons even while inspectors are “inspecting” certain key facilities. His chemical weapons facilities are on mobile semi-trucks for crying out loud!

Plus, I think the proposal that Bush sent to the United Nations was not strictly focused on removing the weapons:

Are UN weapons inspectors going to free the 600+ POW’s that still are held captive in Iraq from Desert Storm?

Are UN weapons inspectors going to stop the persecution of the Kurds and the Sheaites? (sp?)

Are UN weapons inspectors going to stop the horrific crimes (and experiments) that Saddam currently inflicts upon people? Including acid baths and dis-memberment of body parts while the person is still alive!

UN weapons inspectors are a weak attempt to solve only one aspect of the broad range of issues that Saddam is guilty of. They don’t even do a good job at that.

3 Months? What have you been smoking? Give him 3 years, minumum.

According to the former Iraqi nuclear scientist who was under Saddam’s command.

For me, I don’t oppose the war because of the reasons for starting it. I oppose the war because we don’t have a clear plan for afterwards. If this war lasts awhile, meaning a long bombing campaign, hate is going to be brewed by the barrel. If we let happen to Iraq what we let happen to Afganistan, we’re in trouble. Going into Iraq as is right now, with no post-war plan, is a bigger folly than the Townshend Act by England in 1765.

I will lay money on the fact that the Bush team has multiple proposals on the table for a post-war Iraq. There’s a big difference between what you hear on CNN and what’s going on in the White House.

@Deviant:Scripter:

I agree on the “never all the weapons”, but disagree on nearly all the rest.

So you agree with the fact that UN weapons inspectors will never find all the weapons? Then why are we wasting our time and implanting a false security into the rest of the world by using inspectors? Saddam will continue to develope these weapons even while inspectors are “inspecting” certain key facilities.

Just as the US, who claim to be the judge over others, and still develop aggressive chemical weapons?

And of course, my emphasis was on “all”. I still think inspectors would/will find “most” of those weapons.
Plus: i prefer someone searching for that weapons to someone forcing Saddam to use those weapons! And that’s what an attack with the aim of killing him would do.

I will lay money on the fact that the Bush team has multiple proposals on the table for a post-war Iraq. There’s a big difference between what you hear on CNN and what’s going on in the White House.

i would wager against that.

Just as the US, who claim to be the judge over others, and still develop aggressive chemical weapons?

And of course, my emphasis was on “all”. I still think inspectors would/will find “most” of those weapons.
Plus: i prefer someone searching for that weapons to someone forcing Saddam to use those weapons! And that’s what an attack with the aim of killing him would do.

Yes, absolutely. The US is probably the biggest producer of these weapons. However, there is HUGE difference between the two countries.

We are civilized and Iraq is not.

Is “most” enough to save us from the threat that Saddam poses? Does this argument seem weak to anyone else?

We are civilized and Iraq is not.

Hmmmm… just as the Romans thought they were civilized whereas the “barbarians” were not? :-?

Of course there is a difference, though I think you’re being vague on it.

they should snipe hussain using robots

LOL. :lol:

@Anonymous:

Yes, absolutely. The US is probably the biggest producer of these weapons. However, there is HUGE difference between the two countries.

We are civilized and Iraq is not.

Is “most” enough to save us from the threat that Saddam poses? Does this argument seem weak to anyone else?

To whoever posted that:
Well, i prefer weak arguments to illegal, hypocritic and arrogant action,
only that it doesn’t sound weak to me.
You can: either reduce the risk of these weapons being used against you, or make sure that these weapons are being used against you. What do you choose?