@Mr:

IMHO Saddam should have been taken out 10 years ago. All those bleeding heart liberals put a stop to that, know look at the affairs today.

America is righty sensitive since 9/11 and they don’t want an encore.

I read this in the paper today:
Quote
" Saddam Hussein poses a grave threat to the world and must be stopped"
British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

It seems that Amercia does have backing.
Canada will follow soon, to spite what our twisted lip Prime Minister says.

well, Cretien appears to be waiting for a definitive statement one way or the other from Bush regarding war with Iraq before he commits to a position. What a freak.

Is it just me or does anyone else have a sinking feeling that Saddam won’t even be in Baghdad when we attack! I have a feeling we’ll be going on a man-hunt remiscent of Osama Bin Laden.

D:S,
Yup! He’ll take HIS $ and move to some secure compound in remote Africa. I think the jungle would give his Elite elite guard better cover, but they are used to fighting in the desert.

Well, now I here on the news that Italy, Spain, Brunei(we are already building airfields here) and a few other countries are supporting a joint effort. Britain has been on board since day one. France and Germany are going slow since they have a large Muslim minority and want to avoid backlash as long as possible. The US accepts the responsibility to lead this time, as we did in Persian Gulf War I. I wish to thank Great Britain for leading patiently during WWI. The US was isolationist until July 8. 1941, but we had great teachers(GB, Winnie and Monty).
THANX - Xi

“Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer
which we use to crush the enemy.” - Mao Zedong :)

Well, now I here on the news that Italy, Spain, Brunei(we are already building airfields here) and a few other countries are supporting a joint effort. Britain has been on board since day one. France and Germany are going slow since they have a large Muslim minority and want to avoid backlash as long as possible.

We’ll see… much of the senate is still divided. Once Bush gives his speech to the UN, then we’ll see if the wheels will turn.

“Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer
which we use to crush the enemy.” - Mao Zedong

Mao was never a communist! :o Mao may haved allied himself with the peasantry, but never with the workers. When Mao’s peasant armies arrived at the cities, and the workers spontaneously occupied the factories and greeted Mao’s armies with red flags, Mao gave the order that these demonstrations should be suppressed and the workers were shot.

Initially, Mao did not intend to expropriate the Chinese capitalists. His perspectives for the Chinese revolution were outlined in a pamphlet called “New democracy” in which he wrote that the socialist revolution was not on the order of the day in China, and that the only development that could take place was a mixed economy, i.e. capitalism. This was the classical “two stage” Menshevik theory which had been adopted by the Stalinist bureaucracy and had led to the defeat of the Chinese revolution in 1925-27.

I’m just quoting him. My lil Red Book is not very worn. :)

"Communism has never come to power in a country
that was not disrupted by war or corruption, or both.

• John F. Kennedy, Speech, July 3, 1963, to NATO.

According to the news (CBSorNBC) Saddam is offering $5000 for any Palestinian who has their house demolished by Israel. I think Israel should take him up on it . . . And TEAR THEM ALL DOWN! Then clear the rubble so that the Palestinians have a great start on a nice new home. :lol:
Beat Saddie at his own game and spend his $ in the process. :P
He’ll never pay it, but he’ll get lotsa credit for the offer. - Xi

“The clock of communism has stopped striking. But its
concrete building has not yet come crashing down. For
that reason, instead of freeing ourselves, we must try
to save ourselves from being crushed by its rubble.”

• Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Russian novelist.
  “How We Must Rebuild Russia,” opening sentence of essay,
  published in Soviet Union’s biggest-selling daily newspaper,
  Komosomolskaya Pravda (Sept. 18, 1990).

I’m just quoting him. My lil Red Book is not very worn

If you can’t even back up those quotes, then don’t. I only assume that in using quotes, you share the same value based assumptions.

"Communism has never come to power in a country
that was not disrupted by war or corruption, or both.

• John F. Kennedy, Speech, July 3, 1963, to NATO.

False! Please, get your facts straight!

President Bush is getting very desperate. Not only did he have nothing to say during his speech to the UN except citing a few old points, but he is now deliberately lieing to us, the American people.

How so?

During his meeting with Tony Blair last Saterday, he quoted a report saying “This report says Iraq is 6 months away from obtaining Nuclear Weapons”. However, he didn’t mention the details. First off, the report said 6 to 24 months away from getting Nuclear Weapons. However, the real problem with the report is it is dated before 1981. Before the Israeli’s did their thing on his reactor.

Khidir Hamza, a former member of Iraq’s weapons-building program, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that Saddam is actively developing weapons of mass destruction and will have accumulated enough enriched uranium to have three nuclear bombs by 2005.

TG Moses VI, Bush doesn’t need to get Congress’s approval if he wishes to attack Iraq. Therefore, it doesn’t really make a difference if Congress is devided.

Yanni, how is President Bush lying to you? I don’t think he’s desperate at all, what makes you say that? He’s taking out Saddam whether the UN is with him or not. They didn’t get attacked on 9/11…we did. Does anyone truly want Saddam to stay in power? This is the same useless (and frivilous) liberal backlash that we heard before Desert Storm.

D:S, once again i am disagreeing with you. The “liberal backlash” 11-odd years ago was quite limited compared to what was expected, i think (given that they are, afterall, liberals). What i’m finding happens too much in American (and increasingly in the media and Canadian) politics is that statements are strewn about in a manner similar to two parties at a negotiating table - both come out with extreme statements hoping that the other side will temper their arguments. Does anyone (even Bush) expect that they and their rhetoric will be believed? No, not if they have an iota of common sense. They hope that something less than their rhetoric will be believed - something close to what they themselves believe.
So anyway, one might not say that Bush is lying so much as emphasizing his point about the Iraqi’s needing to be attacked (again).
As for the UN - while it’s true that Americans lost the majority of the lives and and security sacrificed on 9/11, many Canadian (and German, English, etc.) nationals perished as well - in the planes and in the towers. It too might be useful for Bush to get some backing in the international arena before an attack - as America continues to unilaterally attack and bomb other countries, the rest of the world loses sympathy for America - both her issues and her people. This happens regardless of whether America is “right” or not. With UN backing, then Bush will have a larger cheque to cash when the need arises.

T_6,
Even JFK made mistakes. Please, tell us how he’s wrong.

In reality THERE ARE NO TRUE COMMUNIST COUNTRIES/GOVERNMENTS TODAY. If I remember correctly, in another string, some of us discussed the fact that the communist system cannot exist in the world as we know it. Capitalism/money, and maybe a few other things, would leak into the system screw it up.

Anybody remember that conversation? - Xi

I don’t recall anyone ever giving a thorough defense/defence :P of their quotes on this site. Mostly just mild or complete agreement. There are many great quotes with which I disagree.
Don’t assume. Keep me out of it. :D I will continue to post as I see fit. - Xi

“It is bad luck for world history that of
all people the Russians adopted Communism,
because they are totally unfit for it.”

• Friedrich Dürrenmatt, Swiss essayist.
  “The Marriage of Mr. Mississippi”, pt. I (1952).
  –-----------------------------
  Now, he’s got a point! :wink: - Xi

@DS:

TG Moses VI, Bush doesn’t need to get Congress’s approval if he wishes to attack Iraq. Therefore, it doesn’t really make a difference if Congress is devided.

By acting unilaterally (even within the US), Bush will be cooking one war even I won’t. Most Americans do support (60-70%) do support and invasion of Iraq, but only 30% if Bush fails to get approval by either UN or the Senate. CC, would be right in predicting a backlash of sorts.

@DS:

Yanni, how is President Bush lying to you?

Every politican lies - deal with it. However, the speech Bush gave to UN wasn’t that distorted from the truth. I fail to see any outright lies.

@DS:

Does anyone truly want Saddam to stay in power?

And the transition of power can be absolute anarchy - even worse.

@CC:

The “liberal backlash” 11-odd years ago was quite limited compared to what was expected

Quite limited? Do you know the narrow majority Bush Sr. recieved from the Senate on attacking Iraq those years ago? Also there was a pretty strong anti-war protest (testament of the liberal media), though even they were quickly silenced in victory.

@CC:

So anyway, one might not say that Bush is lying so much as emphasizing his point about the Iraqi’s needing to be attacked (again).

The lies?

Why should Bush waste anymore time and energy trying to convince other countries to join us? He’s laid out the facts, and repeated them many times. If the other countries don’t want in on it, just say so. Let’s face it, we really don’t NEED Candada or any other country with us to defeat Iraq. Militarily wise, we can defeat pretty much anyone. I think the hesitation from the other countries is because they have an Arab minority, and they want to hold off upsetting these people as long as possible. I’m referring to Germany and France in particular.

T_6,
Even JFK made mistakes. Please, tell us how he’s wrong.

Are you confusing me with someone else? :o I never said JFK was a bad president, in fact he was one of the few Democratic Presidents I actually liked. But if you looking for “wrongs” - look no further than Bay of Pigs.

In reality THERE ARE NO TRUE COMMUNIST COUNTRIES/GOVERNMENTS TODAY.

BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah… tell me something I don’t know.

If I remember correctly, in another string, some of us discussed the fact that the communist system cannot exist in the world as we know it. Capitalism/money, and maybe a few other things, would leak into the system screw it up.

That’s funny. It didn’t seem like I was around when this anti-communist string, wrote it was a fact that communist system cannot exist. Hmmmmm… :-?

There are many great quotes with which I disagree.

And yet you post them. You post some wildly fraudulent quotes (ex. hey, Mao was a communist! Sure…), and you expect me not disprove them? Tst, tst, tst…

“It is bad luck for world history that of
all people the Russians adopted Communism,
because they are totally unfit for it.”

The Russian peasantry and proletariat were very loyal to communism and strived to build a workers state. The main shortfall was the lack of skilled labor, capital, technology, food, and isolation that proved to be a great burden. If there was any fault, it lied with the Rightist “Stalinist” Regime and their kulaks, not of the inability of the Russian masses.

@DS:

He’s laid out the facts, and repeated them many times. If the other countries don’t want in on it, just say so.

Diplomacy takes time. Don’t get impatient. I would much rather have the US be prepared for war and it’s likely outcomes and consequences than to be bold and rash in action. Remember, Bush Sr. had to wait 6 months after Kuwait was conquered.

@DS:

Why should Bush waste anymore time and energy trying to convince other countries to join us?

And you would risk crippling relations of foreign policy over this?

Let’s face it, we really don’t NEED Candada or any other country with us to defeat Iraq. Militarily wise, we can defeat pretty much anyone.

It is true that we can pretty much “go it alone” in terms of military (Saddam’s military is in poor shape compared with 1991). However, what Bush needs more than arms is approval. If you are against the whole international community, then you are in sense on the same level as Saddam. Think about it.

@TG:

And you would risk crippling relations of foreign policy over this?

It won’t cripple foreign relations if we go it alone. None of the other countries really care if Saddam lives, they’re just trying to cover their own butts.

@Yanny:

President Bush is getting very desperate. Not only did he have nothing to say during his speech to the UN except citing a few old points, but he is now deliberately lieing to us, the American people.

This seemed to imply Bush was lying in front of the UN during his speech, not with his meeting with Blaire (which I’m unaware of that particular part).

None of the other countries really care if Saddam lives, they’re just trying to cover their own butts.

Regardless, I don’t think anybody wants US to become the big bully. US should be more of an eagle protecting others - not a hawk. By going against UN, show that US government only cares for itself and only listens to UN when it suits them.

@TG:

"Communism has never come to power in a country
that was not disrupted by war or corruption, or both.

• John F. Kennedy, Speech, July 3, 1963, to NATO.

False! Please, get your facts straight!

You said it! Fill us in. - Xi

Oh, I forgot . . .
Blah blah :wink: blah, blah, blah blah :roll: blah blah blah. - Xi :P