Anti-Balistic-Missile-Defense

Yes but no…We are wasting money right now. Computers are just not advanced enough, yet we want to build missile killing rockets right away. We need another decade to advance atomic clock technologies, tell russia we won’t build it, and get some ehat off us during this “war on terror.”

I agree with Horten. While I would like a missile shield against rouge nuclear threats (though if an attack were to come, it would likely be within America’s home borders), but like Star Wars, the technology for feasibility just doesn’t exist. I would probably give it another 10 years before we go ahead, instead of wasting billions now. Also the point of a missile shield against China or the former USSR is point, they would just overload our defenses with a saturation strike.

An ABMD covering more than Washington DC would defy the ….which one was it… well, one of the nuclear-weapon-control-treaties, i think it was the ABM-Treaty of 1972, and possibly the newer START II.

Even the land of the free should stick to what it once has written/promised.

The problem with the ABM Treaty of 1972 was that it was signed with the USSR, not Russia. So when the USSR dissolved into separate countries, the treaty ceased to exist as a legally binding agreement between the two superpowers. Also, under the provision of the treaty, both sides could pull out of the document at any time, provided they give the other side at least a 5 months warning time (think it was 5, but not entirely sure).

My reply is a big, resonding, NO.

Why have we never used Nukes in the past? It wasn’t for fear of killing millions. It was for fear of millions of us being killed. If that fear is eliminated, our Goverment will throw them at Small Countries like darts on a dartboard.

@F_alk:

An ABMD covering more than Washington DC would defy the ….which one was it… well, one of the nuclear-weapon-control-treaties, i think it was the ABM-Treaty of 1972, and possibly the newer START II.

Even the land of the free should stick to what it once has written/promised.

that treaty is expired this year…and the Soviet Union of the Salt treaty no longer exists…

does America keeping treaties with the Weimar Republic though they no longer exist? America can if they want, but with the technology available now, it just isn’t feasable.

“First, I do believe we could develop the system in about a decade if we start now”

yes, but why waste 300 billion starting now, when ten years from now we can waste far less…

but then again, it would be nice to have just enough working (prototypes) before an attack on Iraq…but if that isn’t going to happen. They could just nuke Israel and their “Palestinian” buddies…not many countries have a rocket that can go accross the ocean, so wait ten years, build it right, when the threat is a little more feasible…

I would just hate to be Europe though!

Horten, even though the USSR does not exist anymore,
russia is its successor state, and has taken the “responsibilies” of the former USSR, like the debts and treaties.
That’s the way international law works. Just imagine russia would have said they would not take the USSRs responsibilities (like the USSR did with the russia of the czar): you will find yourself in deep political and economical isolation in less than a second.

“Second, China does have 400 nukes, but only 20 ICBMs.”

How can we be sure of this? China is already taking steps to modernize its military (preparing to invade Taiwan, which is really more trouble than its worth) and ten years from now (when this so-called missile defense is ready) that number can increase exponentially, especially with Russia selling many of its weapons and technology to China. Also, most of the test (if not all) so far have only been one missile, and the success rate isn’t exactly 100%. How can we be sure we can even shoot down 20? What’s not to say China won’t accelerate their missile program once they know what they have to deal against?

“Why have we never used Nukes in the past? It wasn’t for fear of killing millions. It was for fear of millions of us being killed. If that fear is eliminated, our Goverment will throw them at Small Countries like darts on a dartboard.”

Well that is a bit of exaggeration. I would hope that the American people and its elected rulers would have enough sense not to. Also, how many of the these small countries have the technology and resources to develop a effective ICBM program? Not very many. Even with a Missile Defense System, there is still the serious threat that an NBCE weapon (most of them that can be manufactured and hidden quite easily) can be detonated inside of the United States.

“Horten, even though the USSR does not exist anymore,
russia is its successor state, and has taken the “responsibilies” of the former USSR, like the debts and treaties.
That’s the way international law works. Just imagine russia would have said they would not take the USSRs responsibilities (like the USSR did with the russia of the czar): you will find yourself in deep political and economical isolation in less than a second.”

Even if this is true, there’s still the fact that under the provisions of the treaty the US or USSR could pull out at any time as long as they gave an advance warning. “It shall give notice of its decision to the other Party six months prior to withdrawal from the Treaty. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events the notifying Party regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests.” - Article XV. I believe the dissolving of the Soviet Union, rogue nations developing their own nuclear weapons system, and Sept. 11th would qualify as extraordinary events.

And lets not forget that Russia supports the movement toward a Missile Program. “The Russians’ future is with us, and they know it. In addition to agreeing to cut their nuclear arsenal, they just signed up to become a junior member of NATO. Even with Putin-a former KGB officer-at the helm, they view us as strategic partners in the real war of the 21st century: the war on terrorism. The ABM Treaty has no place in such a world. And virtually all realize that the real threat for both countries comes from rogue regimes such as North Korea, Iran and Iraq.”

@TG:

Even if this is true, there’s still the fact that under the provisions of the treaty the US or USSR could pull out at any time as long as they gave an advance warning. “It shall give notice of its decision to the other Party six months prior to withdrawal from the Treaty
…
And virtually all realize that the real threat for both countries comes from rogue regimes such as North Korea, Iran and Iraq.”

For the first, well, i only know roughly what’s in there, so if there is a clause to leave the treaty, then i guess it’s all fine….

And if i was Horten, i would now be very very very upset, that you say that every single citizen of North Korea, Iran and Iraque is a rogue :) :) :)

Why not pull a Bush and call them the "Axis of Evil?
"
But seriously, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea (and probably some others I forgot to mention) do pose the greatest threat of developing long range missile systems capable of hiting the US. I wouldn’t call all or maybe even most of their citizens “rogues” (don’t know where you got that from me, since I have well-being friends from around those places), but their existing regime isn’t exactly on the best of terms with the US (and you can quote me on that). Anyways, these “rogue” countries are what the Missile System should be intent on stopping, not countries like USSR (though we have their support) and China which can produce ICBMs in fairly large stockpiles that they can overwhelming the system. But the true terror is India and Pakistan. If they do go to full scale war (and right now is the closest they been at it) and fire their nukes, the massive radiation fallout carried by the East Winds will spread across the my side of the West Coast and cause cancer to a innumerable amount of citizens. So far, they is not very much we can do about that, except evacuate the whole Western Seaboard.

I have a little story about missle defense. Years ago (well not that many years) when I was in high school, I was considering the Air Force Academy for college. So after my Junior year I was asked to come visit the campus in Colorado with a large group of other candidates. For a week, we went to sample lectures, toured the campus, ate the food, all the good stuff and non of the military stuff. They were very convincing but after visiting I knew that the military was not for me. Not that it was bad, it just was not for me.

But I digress. I went to one sample lecture/lab about coherent light, aka LASERs. It was a nice little lab where they did plenty of demonstrations including one that demonstrated that over great distances, laser light becomes less coherent and eventually begins to spread. The Air Force Professor when on the explain that this is why Star Wars would not work.

I’m not exactly certain how the government and military intend to execute missle defense but if it is like Star Wars, then we’ll spend billions to discover the idea does not work. Furthermore, the government has cut of funding and disbanded one of their best think tanks (can’t remember the name) so where are these missile defense ideas coming from? My guess is dumb generals who do not understand physics.

well said above ^^^

"Horten, even though the USSR does not exist anymore,
russia is its successor state, and has taken the “responsibilies” of the former USSR, like the debts and treaties. "

Debts, we’re still giving them money! The treaty is extinct, and I think Moses made a better argument than I.

@F_alk:

And if i was Horten, i would now be very very very upset, that you say that every single citizen of North Korea, Iran and Iraque is a rogue :) :) :)

I don’t get it! Why would I be upset?

Well for the sake of making this post have substance, let me rant about Bush. You don’t tell an enemy that you have plans to attack him. Furthermore, Iran and North Korea were slowly becoming more friendly to the west (screw Iraq…) and calling them an enemy as if we are some sort of moral judge made our leader look like a moron.

Now Iraq…a change is in order there…but you don’t need to announce an attack, but I bet the army guys want a full scale war instead of just killing of Saddam. Now he is hiding.

Yeah, Iran and North Korea are slowly begining to realize (like the Russians and the Chinese) how much better it is for them to support us then to be against us. But Bush calling them the Axis of Evil, that just worsens the situation between the countries. (Well, except for Iraq Regime that’s wants us dead after Desert Storm. But Saddam can only live so long).

But, whats to stop us from Nuking Iraq? Mainly its Russia’s still potent supply of ICBMs. If that weren’t there, or the threat was eliminated, we would of Nuked Sadam long ago.

I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want to be known as the president that irradiated an entire nation. Truman still gets ridiculed for authorizing droping nukes on Japan. It’s not the best plan for a leader that wants to keep good international relations.