When going for Moscow as Germany...

@Herr:

@oysteilo:

@Herr:

Isn’t that a bit slow?

I1: take Bulgaria
I2: units move to Romania
I3: can-opening into Bessarabia and/or Eastern Poland

So in that scenario, the German followup will be as late as G4.

I think the important can-opening happens around (I4), I5, I6 in order to break through into volgograd and caucasus and later to threaten middle east by italy taking NW persia

The idea of can-opening is, to take the territory with Italy in order to allow Germany, and especially the German planes, to reinforce it against a Russian counterstrike. So I don’t think that any Italian drive to the south servers the purpose of can-opening because Russia is unlikely to have sufficient forces to strike back at either Volgograd or the Caucasus anyway in case the Germans would have taken it without Italian assistance. Which doesn’t imply that going that way is bad for Italy because there’s a lot of bonus to be had. But if you’re talking can-opening, then I’d say Bryansk on I5 would be the way to go.

@aequitas:

With Bulgaria, Yugo and Greece given to Italy, what punch will Germany have?
Any Allied player will be happy to harvest Italy…

Agreed. I’d much rather give Bulgaria to Germany to assimilate those troops and add some punch to the German drive into Russia.

I might be using it idfferent than you. The other idea of canopening is to force a russian retreat.
let say you stand in rostov with a german and italian stack, with at least 40 german tank+mech and 5-7 italian units., and 7+ italians. Then ussr has to retreat to moscow. if he stacks byransk, you can take tambov with the italians, and moscow falls on the german turn. Since ussr has to retreat, you get to take cauc, stalingrad and begin taking the middle east immediately.

In general, I agree with what you are saying. My theory is that it’s better to take two equal but losing positions on separate areas of the board than to take one position of strength. The problem in this case is that the northern Russian stack and British-held oilfields, although in separate areas of the board, aren’t equal positions - Britian is much easier to take down and the reward is much higher. Therefore, in this case there is no alternative but to take one position of strength.

The assumption behind my first comment was that if the Russians link up with the British, the combined stack would actually be enough to create such a position and keep the Germans at bay. In a game where it cannot, what have the Allies been doing for 8+ rounds?

The two scenarios I can think of where the Allies still have a chance after Moscow falls, but the British are weak in the Middle East are 1) Japan does something like an India crush that targets Britain or 2) Britain and America have been making landings in Western Europe. In either of those scenarios, if Russia is to retreat, I agree they should not go down south.

If neither scenario applies, and the British have been attempting to build strength in the Middle East, yet it isn’t enough to stop Germany even with the entire Russian stack, the appropriate move is to concede.

Dido what everyone else said.

You should have the Russian minor in Leningrad and prob Ukraine as well a couple turns after you invade Russia, so there really is no need to spend the IPCs up there for redundancy.

You can buy a second German transport for 7 IPCs (cheaper) and move 2 more units (4 tot) through the Baltic and threaten all Russian territories that boarders the Baltic Sea (or even the White Sea sz 127 if you venture out). Besides threatening multiple territories, transports can be used to reinforce or counter attack as well. A 3rd German transport in the water (with some added fleet) will keep the London in a defensive position in the early/mid game too.

Finally as others pointed out a German IC in Scandinavia will quickly draw the attention of the USA. Norway/Finland is already a target, you really don’t want to magnify it IMO.

The USA cannot move any units into any land territory that’s not their own until they are at war.
So, no, they cannot send fighters to the UK until they are at war with Germany.

Did I mention my son is named Luke and daughter Leia?

Not that I know. Thanks for the information :-). Movienames for real life people can be awkward, but Luke and Leia are definately great. Beautiful name for a girl!

The crazy thing is I bought an IC in Persia with UK on turn 2 because I thought his Sealion was a joke or fake.

Uuuuhhh, playing with fire, that is! And too bad its machines aren’t humming, driving the assembly lines to crank out mechanized forces. If I buy an IC in the region it is to be better equipped against a Japanese approach and/or to help Russia contesting Caucasus + Stalingrad. So UK5 or UK6 is still valid. The danger with any ICs there is of course  that Japan rids the UK of it, but that almost certainly means that the USA has an opening in the PAC (no small investment for Japan to drive the UK beyond persia).

Never had so much fun playing Russia

Yeah I really love to play Russia and attack Germany if it goes SL. Or see the look on his face if he can’t get into Moscow after he launched Barbarossa. Of course, my German opponent will love the look on my face if I lost Moscow after failing to persuade my UK ‘friend’ to send me some 8 Spitfires ;-).

No. If Germany already owns Scotland and you offload units there, that would be done during non-combat. Whether it’s an amphib assault or non-combat, once you offload units, they can’t move until the following turn.

I know CJenn’s tactic. � It’s just another variation of what we’ve had since the summer of 2010. �

I think hitting 109, 111, 112, and 106 but not 110 and 91 is more corriganbp’s tactic.  CJenn does it too now, but I think she used to hit SZ110 instead of 109 until corriganbp convinced her 109 was better.

If I had to leave 1 alone, it would be sz111, as those ships can’t get away from you on turn 2.

The only reason to leave one of the UK BBs alone is so you can do 109.  I don’t think you can do both 109 and 110 (along with 112 and 106 heavy) due to UK scramble options.  They, with France, can scramble 3 fighters to 110 or 4 to 109.  They can’t do both scrambles at the same time of course, but as Germany you have to cover for both and I don’t think they have enough air to do so, at least not without skimping a bit in another battle.

@ronrye:

Was I just playing against someone who wasn’t very good at playing Germany?

Perhaps, but not necessarily.  You might have been a little extra good at playing Russia.  Maybe the dice were a little lucky for you or unlucky for Germany.  I remember a game where Germany went into Russia with four huge thrusts – Finland into Karelia, Poland into Baltic States, Slovakia/Hungary into E. Poland and Romania into Bessarabia.  All four armies smashed the Russian early defenses with a lot of stuff left.  Then strong Russian counter-attacks end up decimating half the German force.  After that it was very slow going for the Germans.  The Russians managed to keep putting up strong defenses and whenever a particular German army was whittled down enough, a Russian counter-attack would wipe it out and the German drive was set back again.  I think the Minor IC in the Ukraine was exchanged between Russia and Germany about 4 or 5 times.
So your German player wasn’t necessarily bad, maybe just inexperienced.  Perhaps he learned his lesson and will take Moscow from you next time.  He seemed to do pretty good at taking London.