Broken, Busted, or Both

Plus, remember to remove any killed zombies during EVERY roll. I was in the AAZ tournament too and we forgot to remove killed zombies a LOT during our rolls.

You mean when Attacker or Defender score a (6) and thus destroy a Z?

Yes. At least 2/3 of our rolls we completely forgot to remove zombie casualties (rolled 6s). Unless we specifically stated we were attacking zombies we just completely forgot to remove them.

@taamvan Sorry, I disagree. I love the twist it adds. It is just difficult to remember the small new rules it adds (like the zombie deaths, buying units at the end of a turn, and remembering that when the zombies are greater than the IPC count of a capitol then the zombies take control).

Personally, I loved the game. I made a HUGE mistake early on (having read and played wrong my only other time playing). But, I still loved the game.

@twmattox said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

Yes. At least 2/3 of our rolls we completely forgot to remove zombie casualties (rolled 6s). Unless we specifically stated we were attacking zombies we just completely forgot to remove them.

I think the special dice help with this. But yes, if you do forget to assing the Z-hits, that makes quite an impact on the game.

General remark: yes, Zs are annoying and there are often a lot of them. But within a few turns almost all players have at least some technologies. And these can help to remove at least some of the Zs…
Also: some cards are handy in this regard.

@taamvan said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

@thrasher1 They didnt do it wrong, I did. However, the point is not the value of the unit destroyed, its that it can stymy the end of the game repeatedly. Also, its extremely lame and not interesting as a game mechanic.

Yes. This is not primarily about the cost of the unit you sacrifice. Still, losing a plane so now and then will get rather costly. Also: you need the plane to actually be able to get there…

@twmattox

Please share which rules you misunderstood. This can help us (hello Krieghund but many others will come with their interpretations too) to come up with a good FAQ for AAZ.

@thrasher1 I’m not sure how; but, my whole group of friends interpreted the zombies as an invading force. As Russia, I used infantry to create a zombie barrier between Germany and Russia. The way we had played, at home, this would stop Germany’s ability to blitz tanks into Russia…

Just a silly mis-interpretation on our part. Nothing any FAQ could resolve (I don’t believe).

@twmattox said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

@thrasher1 I’m not sure how; but, my whole group of friends interpreted the zombies as an invading force.

What do you exactly mean by this?

As Russia, I used infantry to create a zombie barrier between Germany and Russia. The way we had played, at home, this would stop Germany’s ability to blitz tanks into Russia…

You refer to a Z-held territory? Or just a territory containing Zs?

Just a silly mis-interpretation on our part. Nothing any FAQ could resolve (I don’t believe).

Don’t agree with you on this one. Any rule misinterpretation by you or your friends can be misinterpreted by others too.
So good to share here. Issues like this can be useful for a FAQ. And maybe some rules can be rephrased a bit.

@thrasher1

Zombies dont stop a blitz. They should. But they dont.

Regarding Zs stopping a blitz move by a tank:

@squirecam said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

Zombies dont stop a blitz. They should. But they dont.

I think this is a common mistake when playing AAZ. Why you think Zs should prevent this blizt move by a tank/armor?

A point of clarification: zombies do stop a blitz movement. A blitz is a two-space move that passes through an unoccupied hostile territory, and the presence of a zombie (or any) unit makes a territory occupied. A two-space move that passes through a friendly territory is not a blitz movement, and zombies don’t prevent it. The justification for this is that since the territory is friendly, safe passage through controlled zones can be made without zombie interference.

Krieghund,

Good to hear from you. Hope to see more of your official answers and clarfications for AAZ issues soon. Thanks in advance.

@Krieghund said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

A point of clarification: zombies do stop a blitz movement. A blitz is a two-space move that passes through an unoccupied hostile territory, and the presence of a zombie (or any) unit makes a territory occupied.

So if there is a Z-controlled area (contains a Z control marker) but has no units on it (mind that this can ONLY be Zs) then you can blitz through this area.

A two-space move that passes through a friendly territory is not a blitz movement, and zombies don’t prevent it. The justification for this is that since the territory is friendly, safe passage through controlled zones can be made without zombie interference.

Yes. Someone (sorry, I forgot who) compared Zs with rebels or partisans. Yes, they are there. But they are in the hills, in the woods.

@taamvan said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

@thrasher1 Yes, its the timing of when they become zombie controlled that is unusual. If you abandon a territory, its about to become Z controlled on the next turn.

As far as I know this specific rule (handing of this situation) was included to prevent areas to count for the Z Apocalypse immediatelly. As the rules are now the next player can liberate/conquer some Z controlled areas (or at least try to do so) to get the IPC value of the Z controlled areas under the critical number that triggers this Z Apocalypse.
@Krieghund Krieghund, others, please jump in here if you have more information (or if I am wrong).
(Technically you might get over this critical IPC level in the first phases of the next players turn. Then again: as the check for Z Apocalypse is at the end of his very turn. So a full turn to kick out some Zs…).

Then it blocks combat movement as all hostile zones do.

If it has Zs on it: yes. Please mind that the next player who get his or her turn can use a card to remove these Zs. Then this very area will NOT turn into a Z controlled area of course.

If there were some way for it to stay that way in the interturn, you could recap it–but since the TO goes allies/axis/allies etc. it will always become Z controlled and block.

Can you please explain what you exactly mean by this? Please give an example.

Blitz is a specific kind of CM. alot of people use it interchangeably with “move 1 then fight” when the first move would have otherwise been a NCM

Very true. You can say in case of a blitz Krieg first you ‘non-comat move’ and then you combat move into the area you attack. Still, I would not use these words here to avoid confusion.
But @krieghund will provide us with the right wording of course…

As far as I know this specific rule (handing of this situation) was included to prevent areas to count for the Z Apocalypse immediatelly. As the rules are now the next player can liberate/conquer some Z controlled areas (or at least try to do so) to get the IPC value of the Z controlled areas under the critical number that triggers this Z Apocalypse.
@Krieghund Krieghund, others, please jump in here if you have more information (or if I am wrong).
(Technically you might get over this critical IPC level in the first phases of the next players turn. Then again: as the check for Z Apocalypse is at the end of his very turn. So a full turn to kick out some Zs…).

Since the Zombie Apocalypse can occur only at the end of a round (not any turn), only the USSR can prevent it in this way.

I’m not sure of the exact reason the delayed zombie control rule was implemented, but it could have been to simply have one point in time where zombie control was applied, and thus streamline play. It could also have been done to give each power the ability to combat move all units out of a zombie-occupied territory and then noncombat move other units in without losing control.

Blitz is a specific kind of CM. alot of people use it interchangeably with “move 1 then fight” when the first move would have otherwise been a NCM

Very true. You can say in case of a blitz Krieg first you ‘non-comat move’ and then you combat move into the area you attack. Still, I would not use these words here to avoid confusion.
But @krieghund will provide us with the right wording of course…

Not really. In the case of a blitz, the first move is not a noncombat move, because the territory is hostile. It takes a combat move to enter a hostile territory, even an unoccupied one.

It’s probably best to compare a normal (non-blitz) two-space tank move to the movement of a battleship. A battleship may move two spaces, but only if the first space is friendly. If the battleship enters a hostile space, it must stop moving. The same applies to a tank, but in addition the tank also has the ability to blitz.

A blitz is a special two-space move that may only be done if the first space of movement is an unoccupied hostile territory (both conditions are relevant). However, to further complicate things, the second move of a blitz may actually be into a friendly territory. So the first space of a blitz move is actually a single-space combat move, while the second is a single-space move that my be either a combat or a noncombat move.

The important thing to understand is that if the first space isn’t both unoccupied and hostile, the move is not a blitz.

I think the broken issue is that the tournament removed the cards. If you had chainsaw tanks, z-4 rounds, and DOTS, you’d have more tools to work on the Zombie problem- along with being able to move zombies and stuff.
I’m new to AA, but from everything I’ve been reading, I love that zombies create a neutral variable that can be strategically applies like a fog of war. Some game re-caps seem like attempts at WWII Operation reenactments where if the dice rolls don’t pan out, one side surrenders, maybe re-set the board.

@taamvan Well, that’s another strategic angle. The defender needs to weigh that possibility, and consider the ramifications of leaving a zombie in a territory and an attacker’s ability to capitalize on the situation.
Note how AAZ OOB is similar to 1941, but, it has artillery. This provides another strategic consideration to balance- do you buy more arty to sacrifice in order to keep the zombie hord numbers lower or not? Then the Z4 rounds come into play with a 2:3 chance of hitting a zombie on attack when faced with all zombies.

@Krieghund said in Broken, Busted, or Both:

Since the Zombie Apocalypse can occur only at the end of a round (not any turn), only the USSR can prevent it in this way.

True. I was aware of that of course. But what ran into my mind was the following. If this Z Apocalypse occurs say during the German turn then the UK or Japan can also think: wow, the least thing I can do is reduce the value of Z-held areas to make it not hit the Z Apocalypse ‘limit’ anymore.
But yes, of course you are right: the check for ‘ZA’ is after the end of a complete round yes…

I’m not sure of the exact reason the delayed zombie control rule was implemented, but it could have been to simply have one point in time where zombie control was applied, and thus streamline play.

Good point. I hope the game developers will speak out on this one.
Personally I think these specific rules are rather confusing. So personally I would have opted for simply:

• If at the end of a player’s turn an area only has Zs on it then place a Z control marker on that territory.
• In case of any specific action (cards) : place an Z control marker immediatelly. Like for example: a card says to place a Z in a neutral territory.

Maybe this approach is a bit ‘EuroGames’-like. But I think it can work here. And is more intuitive.
But other opinions are welcome of course.

It could also have been done to give each power the ability to combat move all units out of a zombie-occupied territory and then noncombat move other units in without losing control.

Krieghund, you are the rules expert. But I dare to disagree on this one. But correct me if I am wrong please.

Any change of ‘ownership’ happens at the end of a player’s turn. So if you move out all your units during your combat move that area is still owned by you (or your ally). OK, so now there are only Zs there. But in the non-combat phase you can non-combat move any unit that did not move yet into a friendly area. And that area is still friendly at that very moment.