We played a couple, then moved onto a week-long game of Global. I like “Revised” quite a bit, but my usual opponent is none-too-happy with the ability of transports to shoot back.
; )
Number of victory cities?
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Hi there, I realize that I perhaps I should have put this in alternative or house rules instead, but it’s so small a rule change I figured this section would be the best. My friends and I have recently gotten into Axis and Allies, we’ve played what I think amounts to four games and are about to play our fifth this weekend. We all like the idea of world domination, so we play for that. Unfortunately, the end of the games are always incredibly boring. Of the four games the Allies have won twice and the Axis have won twice and the end has always been the same, either the USA is left alive, practically intact, with a ton of infantry to clear out, or the only Axis territories left are Japan and Germany. The result being of course huge time costing buildups followed by one enormous battle. So we’re thinking about playing for victory cities in hopes that that problem will be avoided.
Here’s our dilemma: The rulebook says either play for 8, 10, or 12 victory cities. To me these seem like bad numbers though. (Please keep in mind I’m new, this might sound profoundly ignorant) It seems like the axis have to great an advantage playing for 8 cities, as Leningrad and Calcutta are just a stone throws away.
Playing for 10 cities seems like it wouldn’t be great either, given our goals of avoiding the situations where a side has clearly won, yet an enormous buildup and battle is needed to claim victory. With 10 there’s alto of avenues for the Allies to win without taking the two capitals, but I have a feeling Western Europe, Southern Europe, and Manila could be so insanely defended that attacks would be incredibly difficult and almost unreasonable. It also seems like the Axis would have to take over everything but the US to win, my only problem with that being that an invasion of the UK seems also, unreasonably difficult.
Obviously we don’t want to play for 12 cities anymore, so the question I’m posing is, am I wrong about 8 and 10 victory cities? Which one would be better for our needs? And would playing for 9 cities work? 9 Seems like a good number to me, because it means that the Axis could win by only crushing Russia, a point which seems like the clear ending point of Allied hope (sorry, again I’m new if I’m wrong about that), while the Allies would win by crushing either Japan or Germany, or decimating the two Axis players equally, perhaps by taking Paris, Shanghai and Manila/Rome, a point in the game which seems to me to be the ending point of Axis hope.
I’ve also read a thread on this board about moving victory cities, does anyone have any suggestions for that? I always thought there should be a Capetown and a Canberra, but that’s just me.
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Well, 9 VC’s is a pretty common victory condition for many folks (based on what I have read here)
9 VC means that the Axis have lost 3 of 4 of Paris, Rome, Manilla and Shanghai (or that Tokyo or Berlin has fallen in addition to 2 of the above, which pretty much decides the game). Or for the Azis, it means that Calcutta, Stalingrad and Moscow (in most cases) have fallen, leaving the UK and USA facing the Axis without Russia to absorb Axis onslaught.
Either way, 9 VC’s pretty much is the point of no return in the game.
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All my games are 9 pointers now for the following reasons:
1. I usually don’t have more then 4-5 Hours and a 10 VC game for a group I typically play with is like a 8-10 hour game…
2. Axis Victory and Allied Victory is usually achieved with a balanced buy in the sense that you must get a good build in order to win…
3. More fun imo…as far as different VC’s consider:
Hawaii (instead of San Fransisco)
Canberra (Instead of Calcutta)or try more VC’s:
Canberra
Hawaii
Vladivstok (Soviet Far East)
Cairo
Rio De Janerio (Brazil)
Baku (Novorbisk)GG
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Till now, we always played untill someone forfeited…
but, I have to admit: you have to be with persons who tend to see when they have lost the game!!!
and some persons just don’t know the word quitting -
I have actually never played for victory cities, when I play we also tend to know when the game is over. Even in the first few games, where we decided a victory city count it was quite easy to know when to resign.
-Daniel Malus
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If I should play according to VC’s?
I would choose to play a 9 VC game.
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Well guys, just thought I’d give this thread some closure, we played for 9. The Axis held the game for a while city wise, Germany had Leningrad and Japan had Calcutta, but they didn’t make a significant stab at Moscow, and instead Germany attempted an invasion of London, while Japan aimed for the Asian mainland (E. Russia, China, and the Middle East), but no 9th city was taken. Eventually we the Allies took back Leningrad, and then Calcutta, but by the time Calcutta had fallen the game was clearly won by the Allies and it was simply boring. I think our attention spans aren’t high enough or something, I guess an 8 city game is the way to go, possibly with moving Calcutta to Canberra. Thanks for contributing guys.
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Here’s and interesting take. We play for the mainland: Africa, Europe and Asia. The first person to control the whole thing wins. This is really very simillar to 9 victory cities, but it prevents a lot of BS stratagies that turn a losing Allied (or even Axis in rare cases) team into a team with a 30% or 40% chance of winning and cause the game to drag on for 100+ hours in a crummy, weird manner. Sometimes, we take out the Africa part because it’s not really important. But in a game between two honorable parties, a specific victory clause is not necessary.
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We have just been playing that the first major capital that falls and stays fallen loses. Once Russia or Germany has been taken over you can pretty much call it a day. You would have to be a pretty bad player to let one of the factions rebound from a nasty country loss like that.
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liquidvet,
It has been done before…
with success!!! -
We have just been playing that the first major capital that falls and stays fallen loses. Once Russia or Germany has been taken over you can pretty much call it a day. You would have to be a pretty bad player to let one of the factions rebound from a nasty country loss like that.Â
Depends on if the other side is losing a capital at nearly the same time. Very often, Germany and Russia fall around the same time. So even if one falls “first”, if the other goes within a round or two, it can still be a dogfight.
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Why would the germans continue into moscow if their capital is falling? It seems like a really stupid move, if you are about to take moscow it would mean that you have a lot of offensive based just a few turns away, I wouldn’t hessitate in moving around and head back for the defense.
I can understand this, if its the japanese thats taking control over moscow, but then the game is far from lost, a Japanese player having control of moscow means that Empire of the Sun is a really nasty Empire and it won’t take many turns for them to liberate the german capitol.Regards,
Daniel Malus -
@Malus:
Why would the germans continue into moscow if their capital is falling? It seems like a really stupid move, if you are about to take moscow it would mean that you have a lot of offensive based just a few turns away, I wouldn’t hessitate in moving around and head back for the defense.
I can understand this, if its the japanese thats taking control over moscow, but then the game is far from lost, a Japanese player having control of moscow means that Empire of the Sun is a really nasty Empire and it won’t take many turns for them to liberate the german capitol.Yes, when both Germany and Russia fall it is usually Japan who takes Russia. But it is far from a given that Japan will be able to liberate Germany. Yeah, Japan is nasty, but with the US/UK holding Germany itself plus East, West, and Southern Europe they are still probably out-earning Japan.
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Every situation is different…
So, every fall of a capital is different, too!
I only wanted to say that the game isn’t necessarily over when a capital is taken!
Players just have to make up for theirselfs if they still have a chance of winning tha game…
You can lose a battle, but you can still win the war.
and I think this depends on the massivity of the army capturing a capital… -
We sort of just eyeball it. If a capital is taken we will play for a few more rounds. Sometimes it’s fun to play even if you know a team has lost. It’s fun to make a huge stack of battleships and pound the crap out of Japan, or UK.
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@Guerrilla:
All my games are 9 pointers now for the following reasons:
1. I usually don’t have more then 4-5 Hours and a 10 VC game for a group I typically play with is like a 8-10 hour game…
2. Axis Victory and Allied Victory is usually achieved with a balanced buy in the sense that you must get a good build in order to win…
3. More fun imo…as far as different VC’s consider:
Hawaii (instead of San Fransisco)
Canberra (Instead of Calcutta)or try more VC’s:
Canberra
Hawaii
Vladivstok (Soviet Far East)
Cairo
Rio De Janerio (Brazil)
Baku (Novorbisk)GG
Isn’t Baku the capital of Azerbaijan? So wouldn’t it be located in Caucauses?
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your correct… I didn’t know any “cities” that would fit it so I used Baku… If you can think of any please post them!
GG
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Just stick with the most well known city in that area… Krasnoyarsk
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Personally, I do not like the concept of Victory Cities. I find that strategies become designed to take a key city in order to win, even if it puts them in a precarious situation in the rest of the world.
The Avalon Hill Game, Third Reich, had a rule that if the Allies landed in Italy, there was a 1 in 3 change of Italy surrenduring all troops. The Allied player would gamble everything to attempt the invasion in hopes to get lucky on the Surrender. Of course, the loss of all of the Italian based units would cripple the Germans.
The same can happen if a team only requires one more city to win the game.
As for survival after fallen capitals, anything can happen.
If a player has the will to keep playing, then play on. Unless, of course, you wish to surrender.
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we have always played until someone concedes defeat. there is no point putting a player through the agony of “rolling it out”
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