German strategy

Yanni and Moses, I’m curious about your opinions on an interesting variation that I play with some friends…

The historical background is based on this false premis: Germany remains very friendly to the US and respects all US citizens and assets. Due to excellent diplomacy, the US is unable to declare war on Germany.

1.) No Weapons development.

2.) 2 Hit BBs, but NO RR.

3.) US not allowed to attack German territories and units until a)Japan proper is captured, or b) Germany attacks an American unit.

This variation can be very fun because it finally forces America to do something in the Pacific. It also forces Britain to pick up the slack in Africa. Both nations can still rienforce RUS with fighters.

Please tell me what you think…

Sound like a good plan you got there. :)
However, is there anything else to distinguish it from Japan First strat, which is also a valid and often used tactic third only to the “Conveyor Belt” and D-Day?

For example I like your throw in the UK-Germ Seasaw battle in Africa. How about making the scale even greater (changing IPC values, beefing up both sides’ Med Fleet, more ARM, making the Suez Canal more vital). Maybe we’ll get a greater perspective on the Afrika Korps vs. the British 8th Army.

Arggh! TG Moses 2-Hit BBs, while a perfectly good A & A rule, are NOT “militaristically” nor historically correct! BBs were by WWII dangerously vulnerable to aircraft fire and/or the torpedo–in spite of various improvements since the 30s including reinforced bulkheads, increased speed & compartmentalization and additional AA defense. CVs just DOMINATED WWII and this is reflected in (regular) A & A. Not knocking “2-hit BBs” as a rule or BBs in reality (they are very cool!) just pointing out “2-hit BBs” is not historically accurate, as I am sure the U.S. Defense Dept. would agree :wink: !

As far as the strategy suggested, I think KING TIGER, as usual, summed it up…'nuff said…

Ozone27

So basically Allies is always easiest to play with?

“Arggh! TG Moses 2-Hit BBs, while a perfectly good A & A rule, are NOT “militaristically” nor historically correct! BBs were by WWII dangerously vulnerable to aircraft fire and/or the torpedo–in spite of various improvements since the 30s including reinforced bulkheads, increased speed & compartmentalization and additional AA defense.”

Ha, maybe with wimpy British and German battleships! :wink: But when you’re up against US Iowa Class Battleships which are watertight, great fire control systems, the best mix of advanced proximity AA guns, and 17 inches of armor (count ‘em, 17 inches!) - lets just say that torpedoes and even aircraft will have a very tough time crippling them, let alone sinking even one! 8) For just an idea on how tough these ships would be - consider how hard it was for the US to sink the Japanese Musashi and Yamamoto type BBs (they took A LOT of torpedos before sinking). And our Iowas were even widely regarded by experts as being even better defended against such attacks!

Neil: It depends on the experience level of you and your opponents - the more experienced you are at the game, the easier it is for the Allies to win. In other words, with two rookies playing each other the game is 50/50, but with two veteran players the Allies can win 90% of the time.

This is the ‘big secret’ of A&A that players figure out through experience, and marks the turning point of becoming a good player. The solution that most players used is bidding. The players bid on who will play the Axis with an amount of extra troops, and whoever chooses the lowest amount of extra troops gets the Axis.

Ha, I thought the big secret was to always buy infantry! :wink:

Ansbach,
When you play, what it your usual bid? Where do you place?

BTW, Excuse me for not saying this earlier but it’s nice to have you back. :)

@TG:

Ha, I thought the big secret was to always buy infantry! :wink:

Ansbach,
When you play, what it your usual bid? Where do you place?

BTW, Excuse me for not saying this earlier but it’s nice to have you back. :)

Thanks TG - good to be back! And yeah, you are absolutely right - I guess there are quite a few “big secrets”, eh?

My bid really, really depends on my best ‘guesstimation’ of my opponent’s level of play - and of course the rules. However, I do have one golden rule that follows what you said - I always buy infantry with my bid! :)

Online I like to play 3rd Edition, Russia Restricted, AA Active, Axis Advantage, and 2-Hit Battleships. My low bid against a good player will be six - 2 infantry in Egypt. If I think my opponent is better than me I will bid 9 for 3 infantry in Egypt and hope I don’t get it. ;)

In real life, we play older rules versions with higher bids. My second favorite place is probably infantry in Burma. This will let me dump max infantry into Manchuria every turn without having to swing the transport fleet down south and split up my infantry - maximum concentration of force and all that. It also discourages an Indian Factory.

I am not a big fan of extra forces in Europe for two reasons:

1.) Germany can always buy troops in Europe. Put your extras in key places that would normally be hard to reinforce.
2.) I personally think that Germany doesn’t even want Karelia - it spreads them out too thin.

What about you?

Edit: This would actually be a great topic for a new thread - make everybody spill the beans! Think I’ll start one or find an old one and revive it!

@TG:

Ha, I thought the big secret was to always buy infantry!

YOU KNOW WHAT YANNY SAYS!(YKWYS!)
@A_h:

My bid really, really depends on my best ‘guesstimation’ of my opponent’s level of play - and of course the rules. However, I do have one golden rule that follows what you said - I always buy infantry with my bid! :)

YKWYS!
@A_h:

Online I like to play 3rd Edition, Russia Restricted, AA Active, Axis Advantage, and 2-Hit Battleships. My low bid against a good player will be six - 2 infantry in Egypt.

DON’T YOU MEAN 2 INF IN LIBYA?

If I think my opponent is better than me I will bid 9 for 3 infantry in Egypt and hope I don’t get it. ;)

Again with the error!

Online I like to play 3rd Edition, Russia Restricted, AA Active, Axis Advantage, and 2-Hit Battleships. My low bid against a good player will be six - 2 infantry in Egypt.

DON’T YOU MEAN 2 INF IN LIBYA?

Doh!

@Ansbach:

Online I like to play 3rd Edition, Russia Restricted, AA Active, Axis Advantage, and 2-Hit Battleships. My low bid against a good player will be six - 2 infantry in Egypt.

Ha, same with me. I try to get 2 or 3 inf in Libya. However, like you said, extra inf in Burma or Manchuria might also be good if you think you can “predict” your opponent’s strategy.

when playing Germany, Attack UK navy by the first turn and invade UK with tanks and troops (if you still have your transport!)

@chiefman21:

when playing Germany, Attack UK navy by the first turn and invade UK with tanks and troops (if you still have your transport!)

This is an awesome first move! Unfortunately it has little better than a snowball’s chance in hell of succeeding.

Regardless of what you bought, T1 you can get a maximum of 2 INF, 2 FTR, 1 BMR actually onto UK for the attack. That leaves (up to) 2 subs, 3 FTRs for the sea battle–just about enough if the USSR has reinforced UK in North Sea SZ.

The 2 INF, 2 FTR 1 BMR will face 2 INF, 2 FTR, 1 BMR, 1 ARM and that P.I.T.A. AA gun. If you get super lucky, and UK super unlucky, you just might win–but I’ve heard the chances of this happening are something like 1 in 20. What do you do the other 19 times?

An alternative to this plan is to make the attempt T2 when your BB and most of your airforce (which are presumably in Western Europe) might enter the fray. In this scenario you’d sieze Gibraltar T1, endure any counterattack, then (hopefully) attack the North Sea SZ w/ 1 BB, 1 SUB, maybe 1 BMR (or whatever you can get there) while 2 INF and EVERY FTR IN RANGE hit the beach in UK. The UK sometimes might not see the danger–but again, usually the danger is seen and easily thwarted by either sinking the Germany fleet (if possible) or just building a better fleet in the North Sea.

It’s a great dream, but often is not possible for Germany until after USSR has been defeated. If anyone can get me odds on the above attacks it’d be very helpful–also if anyone HAS taken UK early in an actual game, I’d like to know how as well…

Ozone27

i believe the actually chance to win a G1 attack on britain works out to ~10%. ive seen it done in a tournament, when i was japan! my team mate was this wierd (but fun) guy, who had played all of 3 games, and hated our opponents. my team mate didnt want to spend any time around these guys, so he bet the whole game on that one move, and had the second hottest dice ive ever seen (first hottest was watching russian aa cut down 6 outa 6 shooting down the german airforce, thats right, 6 1’s!!!). after handily defeating the british navy (who completely missed), our hero hit 100% on his first roll as attacker. was the most amazing G1 ive ever seen. the opponents gave us the win, as they didnt want to waist the time to probably lose anyway. almost felt bad for our opponents, but they were usually jerks anyway.

“The 2 INF, 2 FTR 1 BMR will face 2 INF, 2 FTR, 1 BMR, 1 ARM and that P.I.T.A. AA gun. If you get super lucky, and UK super unlucky, you just might win–but I’ve heard the chances of this happening are something like 1 in 20. What do you do the other 19 times?”

Roll over and die basically. You know what they say, “If at first you don’t succeed, the hell with it!”

“second hottest dice ive ever seen (first hottest was watching russian aa cut down 6 outa 6 shooting down the german airforce, thats right, 6 1’s!!!).”

This happens to me all the time whenever I sent my airforce of to Karelia! Those vodka powered Russians sure have good aim!

@fixitman:

i believe the actually chance to win a G1 attack on britain works out to ~10%. ive seen it done in a tournament, when i was japan! my team mate was this wierd (but fun) guy, who had played all of 3 games, and hated our opponents. my team mate didnt want to spend any time around these guys, so he bet the whole game on that one move, and had the second hottest dice ive ever seen (first hottest was watching russian aa cut down 6 outa 6 shooting down the german airforce, thats right, 6 1’s!!!). after handily defeating the british navy (who completely missed), our hero hit 100% on his first roll as attacker. was the most amazing G1 ive ever seen. the opponents gave us the win, as they didnt want to waist the time to probably lose anyway. almost felt bad for our opponents, but they were usually jerks anyway.

:lol: Great stories! :lol:

“If at first you don’t succeed, the hell with it!”

:lol: I have a friend that practically LIVES by this rule in A & A! :lol:

Ozone27

heh, my friend, john, was never the type to play any game by normal rules, thats for sure. was really funny watching our opponents faces when they lost on G1. never seen anything like it since, in any game. that was a bad tournament for the other team, as their next game they got trounced by a couple of newbies. they ended up second to last for the tournament, even tho in my book they were at least 3rd place material. these guys were known for serious trash talk, and general nastiness, was good to see em go down hard :)
that same group i took down in a battletech tournament. taught em that 3 light mobile units are much better than 1 really heavy slow unit!

I assure you that Germany should take all his troops and attack UK by the first turn. Take all the fighters you can, the bomber and 2 submarines and attack the royal navy! It worked 100% of the time for me!. Then, take 4 infantry, 2 armor, 1 bomber from Germany–-----, 1 armor from southern europe------, 2 inf., 2 armor, from western europe-------- For a total of 6 infantry, 5 armor, 1 bomber, + 2 fighters can attack and go back to Western Europe I think.

Hi, I am wondering what options are available to the German player under the following cicumstances.
– no Russia Restricted
– no Axis advantage.

First turn the Russians attack norway and load up on karelia all men. In addition the Germans have no fleet left in the Baltic.
In addition they pool 6 guys and 1 tank in the the interior of their country not attacking Japan with it. The placement of these units is 1 territory inland from the sea.

Assuming that England and America will fly their planes to Karelia what to you suggest doing?

I am thinking of buying all men and a transport?

@micayla:

Hi, I am wondering what options are available to the German player under the following cicumstances.
– no Russia Restricted
– no Axis advantage.

First turn the Russians attack norway and load up on karelia all men. In addition the Germans have no fleet left in the Baltic.
In addition they pool 6 guys and 1 tank in the the interior of their country not attacking Japan with it. The placement of these units is 1 territory inland from the sea.

Assuming that England and America will fly their planes to Karelia what to you suggest doing?

I am thinking of buying all men and a transport?

All men and a transport is pretty good, or I might even buy all infantry. In fact, in that game I would probably buy 100% infantry for Germany the whole game, and hope I can hold out until Japan takes Russia.

I am assuming you didn’t get to bid? What I really suggest doing is pointing out to your friends that the game is completely unfair for the Axis with no Russia Restricted, no Axis Advantage, and no bidding. Point them to one of the club websites, where the average bid in a game like that is in the 20’s, i.e. Germany will get an extra 20+ IPCs worth of units to start the game with, wherever they like - just to make the game fair. If you did get to bid then ignore that rant and don’t forget to put a few men in Africa.