Other considerations in evaluating unit cost

@Red:

On a head-to-head equivalent basis 10 IPC cruisers might seem the answer…but this could be an artifact of putting high end units up against meat shield, with no shield of their own. A less aggressive 11 cost for the cruiser might be a better match for consideration of mixed forces. I’ve done some calcs based on 1CA+ 1DD, vs. 2DD; and incrementing up each side with DD’s each time at ranges of CA cost from 10-12. What I find is that the return on investment for the extra cost of a single cruiser in these DD fleets is favorable even at 12 IPC and of course increasingly so as the cost declines.

Gameplay/balance is another criticial thing to consider. We start with an initial placement. When contemplating buys and attacks, if the cost of one component (air, naval, or land) is adjusted up or down then it will impact buying in the other areas as well. This would shift game balance in many cases. So the fewer/smaller the adjustments, the less disruptive they will tend to be.

Instead of taking your dice and going home, why don’t you start a new thread in the G40 forum talking about history and the real cost of units instead of what you wrote above? Are you going tell me that your comments weren’t aimed at provoking a discussion on changing the cost of units? I’m sick of members posting threads disguising their house rule suggestions in the Global forum trying to net a bigger audience, and the moderator of the forum agrees. Your posts get deleted and you cry about it, your thread gets moved and you cry about it… Dude, stop crying.

@Red:

@Young:

Instead of taking your dice and going home, why don’t you start a new thread in the G40 forum talking about history and the real cost of units instead of what you wrote above? Are you going tell me that your comments weren’t aimed at provoking a discussion on changing the cost of units? I’m sick of members posting threads disguising their house rule suggestions in the Global forum trying to net a bigger audience, and the moderator of the forum agrees. Your posts get deleted and you cry about it, your thread gets moved and you cry about it… Dude, stop crying.

Yes, I’m telling you I was taking a bigger picture approach to understanding G40’s cost structure. I had specifically been looking at the cruiser/destroyer comparisons from several angles, so the cruiser is one that I had the most information on and it has been the biggest outlier in price. But unlike others, I wasn’t really seeking a House Rule or a change. If one was made, yes I had an opinion. But my thread was more of a cautionary note about doing such things without considering other aspects. So it is really ironic you had it moved here to House Rules…the opposite of what my thread was about. Congratulations on the successful thread hijack. Your concern trolling is duly noted.

Your suggestion that Cruisers would be better at a cost of $10 or $11 automatically makes it a house rule thread no matter how much you dress it up, and get your facts straight. 1. I didn’t move the thread (do you see a moderator badge under my handle?)… I suggested that the thread be moved and the moderator obviously agreed with me. 2. Did you not hijack someone’s thread this weekend? did you not protest to a moderator about removing a fundamental function that we all enjoyed until now?

Here’s the deal Red Harvest… I’ve been watching you this week and I think you’re a bully. You have insulted my friends and tried to make yourself some kinda big shot around here stating crap like “all the sites I’ve been on don’t have this stupid feature”. However none of that had anything to do with me requesting the thread be moved. IT’S A HOUSE RULE THREAD and I don’t care what you think because the moderator has moved it on the same grounds. The quote that I hi-lighted above only proves that you were welcoming a discussion about changing the cost of units… because you were ready with an opinion.

I don’t like bullies, and if you continue to be a bully on this site… than we can go round and round all year. Just ask Mantle Fan, oh wait… you can’t because that bully ran away. I told you that requesting your thread to be moved wasn’t personal, but now that you’ve made it personal… I don’t mind telling ya off.

@Red:

Wow, you are incredibly hypocritical.  You have been the one trying to bully, and doing so in gang fashion with your “friends.”

As has been noted by all participants in his thread except Uncrustable, I didn’t hijack his thread.  So nice try respinning that one.  In his thread, I did focus on the original cruisers, as I didn’t find the other units mentioned as interesting.

But this one you have most certainly hijacked from start to finish with personal attacks.  And contrary to your transparently dishonest claims I notice you didn’t go after the threads that are entirely House Rules in nature in G40.   Liar!

I requested the ship placement at naval bases thread to be moved the same time I asked yours to be moved. The fact that you’re reserecting old house rule threads in the Global forum proves just how corrupt and off topic that forum has been… Thanks for proving my point.

PS: nobody puts my friends in quotations.

@Red:

@Young:

I requested the ship placement at naval bases thread to be moved the same time I asked yours to be moved. The fact that you’re reserecting old house rule threads in the Global forum proves just how corrupt and off topic that forum has been… Thanks for proving my point.

Actually, the fact that you only grabbed one other thread, and not even one of the related and longer unit cost threads in G40, showed that you were engaged in exactly the sort of personal attack you denied.  You created a weak alibi for your action.  Had you tagged the more obvious ones in the first few pages and had them moved, it wouldn’t have been so obvious.

But hey, congratulations to you and your friends of doing your level best to keep content off of the forum through concern trolling.  I’ve been working up some data on historical naval starting strength, and annual type construction for each nation by year (started working on it during Uncrustables thread.)  Had actual cost data too for some.   But it wasn’t a fit for House Rules…seemed like a good fit for G40 and the heart of the game.  Apparently, that’s no good either, so I won’t bother posting them at A&A.

This is about you being sour that your thread got moved, if it wasn’t… you would have created a new thread that was more in line with site policies without displaying hard feelings, and I would have gladly contributed in that discussion like a mature adult. However, now that you’re calling me a lier and a hijacker… lets consider for a moment what you have done. You derailed Uncrustable’s thread forcing him to delete it, and than after a long campaign to abolish the remove topic option, what did you do? you stole his topic and created the thread in your own image. SHAME!

@Red:

@Young:

This is about you being sour that your thread got moved, if it wasn’t… you would have created a new thread that was more in line with site policies without displaying hard feelings, and I would have gladly contributed in that discussion like a mature adult. However, now that you’re calling me a lier and a hijacker… lets consider for a moment what you have done. You derailed Uncrustable’s thread forcing him to delete it, and than after a long campaign to abolish the remove topic option, what did you do? you stole his topic and created the thread in your own image. SHAME!�  �

No, it is about YOU being sour and making it all personal.  You have been projecting from the start claiming to know my intentions.   You are the one that hijacked this thread.  100% all you!   There is no thread that is in line with your vendetta policy here so I won’t bother with it. Hell, you didn’t even let this one begin before you completely changed the topic.

I didn’t derail Uncrustable’s thread, nor was he “forced” to delete it.    I added information to his thread, including that requested by a key participant.  He didn’t like having data that differed with his preconceived idea of the solution, so he deleted my posts and those of everyone else.  He could have asked for moderator help/ruling.  But he didn’t.  He wasn’t forced to do anything.  He chose to.  You and your “friends” should learn to take some responsibility for your actions, rather than blaming others because you behave like clueless dicks.

I didn’t steal his topic.  Mine was for a different purpose, it sure wasn’t for House Rules or whatever G40e is.   BTW just to demonstrate how devoid of thought your posting is: how would one even “steal” a topic from someone who intentionally flushed it?

As for getting rid of the remove topic option:  The good guys win now and again.  Hooray for us, boo for you and those who think they should be able to destroy others’ content!

I may have called you a bully, but you have called me a lier, a hijacker, a blowhard, and now a clueless dick. I hope you get suspended.

A lot of this could have dropped a few days ago Red. Let’s say YG had purposely moved your thread. Well only moderators can do that not YG. You wanted the board policed and actively lobbied for it and you got it. Now that the rules aren’t acting in your favor you’re upset and insulting people…again.

In your deletion thread you started acusing anyone against you point of view as throwing temper tantrums. I and some others simply pointed out there were reasons to delete threads you started hurling the insults. If YG’s friends are backing him you shouldn’t wonder why. He’s  done more for this site and the game than a lot of people and has helped people readily with courtesy and knowledgeable advice.
So yeah his friends will go to bat for him.

You haven’t been here that long as well as some of your lobbyists for no thread deletion. You guys lobbied for a site change people didn’t like for reasons other than censoring you.

This site has a culture and most of us can get along just fine without going ballistic. I even posted that I could see why you guys were mad about lost threads and suggeated burying the hatchet. You didn’t. Apologies were made and that still wasn’t good enough. So you escaleted it. You wanted intervention well you got it.

There are plenty of rivalries on this site and people who flat out don’t like eachother at all. However few of them have ever lobbied for a dramatic change over one thread. If you want to sit and talk the way you do to people like you have, I guarantee people will rally against it.