Talk Tech Turkeys (1914)

Hey guys,

Been thinking of ways to make naval warfare more enticing in AA1914.

I think it is an opportunity to give something unique to both sides, so here’s what I was thinking.

For the Entente (Allies) : Freighters. You can build 1 per 8 land IPC you command, costs 3 IPC, 2 movement speed. Every time it ends its turn either next to a neutral country worth 2 IPCs or more or in the naval base of one of your allies (not your own), you gain 2 IPCs.

For the CPs (Axis):

Restricted Sub Warfare : Active from the game’s onset, on the British turn, every CP sub in sea zones 2, 7 and 8 roll and on a 3 or less, 1 IPC is deduced from the UK’s income. Unrestricted Sub Warfare : Active when declared by Germany. Same as above except that it applies to the UK and the US’ turns and every sub in those areas are automatic hits and 1 IPC is deduced. The Entente may remove one roll for every surface warship in those zones. Merchant Raiders : 3 IPCs, movement speed of 2. They are stealthy and can therefore sail past blockading enemies like subs do. Every turn they end up adjacent to an enemy territory, that enemy loses 1 IPC. If the territory is worth 2 IPCs or more, the lost IPC is instead transferred to the raider’s owner. Only 1 IPC per raider may be deducted and gained this way. To sink the raider, the Entente must send ships in that area to find it. Instead of normal combat, the Entente declares which ships is on “raider” duty. He gets 1 point per ship sent and then rolls a die. If the number rolled is equal to or less than the number of ships sent, the raider is found and destroyed (so if 3 ships are sent on patrol, a roll of 3 or less destroys the ship). He gets only one roll per turn. The CPs may only have one raider per 6 land IPCs they own.

I think this could make naval combat more fun and significant in the game, especially for the CPs who could see value in trying to take command of the seas or force the Allies to chase them around. On the Entente side, it would give some countries (Italy, USA particularly) a shot at boosting their IPCs and decide if they play the long economic game at the risk of lacking armies.

Let me know what you think !

These house rules are meant to make the game more realistic while staying as simple as possible.

Battleships cost 14 IPCs. They cost 1 IPC to repair.

Switzerland has an IPC value of 4.

The U.K. can only produce up to 4 units per turn in India. If India is captured by the Central Powers, the Central Powers cannot produce units there.

If a capital is captured, the IPCs are discarded and not taken by the capturing power.

Neutral territories that are not home territories still get units if invaded.

Sea units, except submarines, must end their movement when they enter a sea zone with enemy mines.

Units that retreat from a contested territory cannot move into another contested territory. They may move into any adjacent friendly territory.

There is a combat move and a non-combat move. During the combat move, units can move into neutral, contested, and enemy territories. The non-combat move comes after combat. During the non-combat move, units that did not move during the combat move and did not conduct combat can move into friendly territories. Land units can move an unlimited number of territories during the non-combat move within their original territories.

Optional Manpower Rule

Keep track of the infantry that are destroyed for each power. If a power has had 2x the number of their infantry destroyed as their starting IPC value (rounded up), they may only collect half of the total IPC value of their territories when they collect income (rounded up). If a power has had 4x the number of their infantry destroyed as their starting IPC value (rounded up), they may only collect the IPC value of their capital territory when they collect income.

A&A 1914 - Russian Civil War
At the end of the Mobilize New Units phase of any Russian turn starting in round 4, check to see if the conditions for the Bolshevik Revolution have been met. If the conditions are met, then the Bolshevik Revolution takes place immediately and Russia’s Collect Income phase is skipped. After the revolution is complete, Germany may begin their turn.

The Revolution Phase (Steps for setting up the Civil War):
1. All Russian and other Allied forces in Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan are retreated by moving those units one space to any adjacent territory controlled or contested by Russia or a friendly power or onto any friendly transports in an adjacent sea zone. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then they are removed from the game.
2. Retreat all Central Powers units and control markers from Moscow, Karelia, Tartarstan, and Kazakhstan in the same manner. If some units cannot retreat in that manner, then move them to their respective capitals.
3. Introduce the Soviet Power and assign a Central Powers player to take the responsibility of controlling this new power.
4. Place Soviet units on the board as follows: 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Moscow, 3 infantry and 1 artillery in Karelia, 2 infantry in Kazakhstan, and 1 cruiser in zone 12.
5. Place a Soviet control marker on Moscow, Karelia, and Kazakhstan. Place a Soviet control marker on the national production chart at 9 IPCs and then give 9 IPCs to the Soviets treasury.
6. Imperial Russia keeps any leftover IPCs in its treasury.

The Russian Civil War:
-It is a proxy conflict between the Red/Bolshevik (Soviet) forces supported by the Central Powers and the White/Nationalistic (Imperial) forces supported by the Allies.
-The Civil War begins immediately after the Revolution.
-The goal of Russia and the Allies is to take back Moscow and get Russia back in the war.
-The goal of the Soviets is to control of all of Russia and spread their influence if possible.

The Soviet Russian Republic is a new power. This new power follows the same turn phases as any other power and can purchase units and collect income from territories it controls and national objectives it completes. Soviet Russia’s capital is Moscow. Soviet Russia’s turn occurs at the end of the round after the USA and before Austria-Hungary. Soviet Russia is at war with all the Allied powers. For simplicity, the Soviet units use the red Central Powers chips and Soviet Russia is treated as a member of the Central Powers but with certain limitations regarding the movement of its units.

Per treaty of Brest-Litovsk, the territories that make up “Outer Russia” (Livonia, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Finland, and Sevastopol) are ceded to the Central Powers. Soviet Russia must also recognize and respect the sovereignty of Persia and Afghanistan and Soviet land units cannot enter any these territories. The Central Powers also recognize Soviet Russia’s claim over the territories that make up “Inner Russia” (Karelia, Moscow, Tatarstan, and Kazakhstan) and cannot enter these territories. Soviet units can never enter a territory that was originally, or is currently controlled or contested by the Central Powers.
Soviet sea units can move through sea zones with Central Power but are not allowed to end their movement in any sea zone with Central Powers units. Soviet sea units are hostile to Allied units and are subject to the effects of sea mines of any Allied power.

Contested territories: If the Central Powers and Russia contest any territories in Outer Russia when the revolution occurs, the Imperial White forces there remain in combat with the Central Powers. They are allowed to retreat to any adjacent territory still controlled or contested by Imperial Russia on their turn of course per normal combat rules.

Since Moscow becomes the new Soviet capital and was never captured by any power through a combat, it does not count as a victory city for the Central Powers. When Imperial Russia takes back Moscow, this does not count as a victory city for the Allies.

The Revolution only happens once per game. If the Imperials have taken back Moscow, and are losing the war at the end of their turn and the conditions for Revolution are met, then no Revolution would occur.

While Soviets have Moscow, the Allies can capture and collect IPCs for Russian territories that they control, including Romania and Serbia. Once Moscow is back in Imperial hands, then all original Russian territories controlled by the Allies are reverted back to Imperial Russian control, including Romania and Serbia.

In the event of an Imperial victory, the Soviet Power is still in play and any remaining Soviet forces will remain on the board and participate. Imperials will collect any unspent IPCs left in the Soviet bank.

The Soviets do not need to control Moscow for a Central Powers victory in the game.

Design Note:
These rules do not simulate the Russian Republic of 1917, or any of the minor factions such as the independence movements, the Green armies, and the Black Army.

Well, no one is bullying anyone that I have seen.

Its more over-strategizing each round, seemingly inviting discussion for each combat operation by allies.

Not discounting valuable advice from your allies which we all seek, my view is that this level of co-ordination in-turn each round takes away from individual play and is time consuming. For me, something challenging may be lost when allies overly depend on other’s impute on each strategy.

In the end, each player controls the country so at some point individual play is necessary.

1914 house ruling is doomed in this forum

@toblerone77:

I’m just going to say something here. Excluding your math Baron. The whole point of this rule was to open up a way for SBR against ICs with a loose historical basis. The loose historical depiction of night bombing was to give the attacker a less risky SBR but the penalty was less risk=less reward.

Given the basic concept, I think it is viable. I liked the idea of night fighters but thought it best to drop them. That’s my POV. An SBR that drops interceptors/escort could simulate this simply.

I encourage everyone to post as they like. Personally I like the idea of simply eliminating escorts and interceptors for night raids and reducing AA fire 1@D12. Damage totals are halved. That’s just what I like.

Everyone else, carry on.

Hi Toblerone77,
I don’t know if you play 1942 second edition, but within the optional rule for SBR escort and interception it becomes viable to have such thing as StB playing a role as Night-fighter, because the odds are clearly different from G40 during the regular SBR with escort: all Fgs and StB A1 first strike, while Fg D2.

All you have to do to implement a 1942.2 Night bombing & Night Fighter HR is this when playing with escort and interception optional rule:

Day SBR damage on IC becomes 1D6+2/StB, instead of just D6.

During 1942.2 Night SBR, the damage becomes D6-1/StB (or D6+2 halved rounding down, if you prefer).

In addition, all attacking StBs and defending StB Night-fighters roll a regular A/D@1, same as G40 SBR escort and interception rule.

The AAA fire @1 in both cases, Day or Night SBRs.

These 2 things will make all the basics 1:1, StB vs Fg/StB Night Fg, balance.

Day SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage + 4.583 - casualty 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB
StB vs Fg+AAA,  damage + 4.977 - casualty 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

Night SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage +2.083 - casualty 2.0 = +.083 IPC damage/StB
StB vs StB NF+AAA, damage +3.736 - casualty 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

So, Night SBR is better when there is more than 1 Fg defending an IC, and it is still an even match for both sides (near 0 IPC) to throw 1 StB against a StB NightF.

But, if there is only 1 Fg on the IC, the Day SBR is still positively better (.2 vs .069).

In addition, there is less StB and money in 1942.2 compared to G40, so there is lesser chance that StBs presence will forbids any Night SBR.

To summarize the viable SBR tactics with this 1942.2 HR:

No Fgs on IC, go for Day-SBR 2 or more Fgs on IC, go for Night-SBR unless there is more than 1 Night-Fg for 1 StB raider. Keeping a 1 Fg + (1 StB :1 Fg) advantage for Day bombing is better. Or staying within the 1 StB and 1 Fg vs 2 Fgs is the lower limit, it is still viable around 0.00 IPC/StB run.
So, going 1:1 vs Day or Night is almost the same risks involved, but with less damage & casualty in Night SBR.

What do you think of this?

Now, Night Bombing can be viable in both games.

Here is the calculation basis for this 1942.2 Night bombing with Night Fgs House Rule:

OOB 1942.2: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.9 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 2.9 - 2 = +.9 IPC damage/StB

OOB 1942.2 SBR with D6 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+6) IPCs)/2= +3.5 IPCs) = 2.107 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs

Sum: 3.774 - 4.777 = - 1.0 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 HR damage D6+2 : 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 4.583 - 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 SBR HR with D6+2 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+2) + (6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 3.31 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs
Sum: 4.977 - 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

HR for 1942 with StB as Nightfighter interceptor all A1/D1 as in G40 interception rule, damage at D6-1:

1 StB A1 vs 1 StB D1 doing interception

StB roll /Fg roll / AAA roll

116= 6/216 1 StB killed by StB NF vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.78%
151= 5/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.31%
155= 25/216 no casualty vs 1 StB NF killed: 11.57%

516= 30/216 StB killed by StB NF: 13.89%
551= 25/216 StB killed by AAA: 11.57%
555= 125/216 both survived: 57.87%

Results:
69.44% * ((0+5) IPCs)/2= + 2.5 IPCs) = 1.736 IPCs
16.67% killing StBNFg *+12 IPCs = + 2.00 IPC
30.55% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 3.667 IPCs

Sum: 3.736 - 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

1942.2 HR damage D6-1: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 2.5 IPCs = 2.083 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: +2.083 - 2 = +.083 IPC damage/StB

1942.2, damage D6+2: 1 StB & 1 Fg A1 first strike doing Day-SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D2

StB+Fg rolls/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds   casualties

1/3636/361/6   = 36/7776      1 StB killed by AAA vs 2 Fgs : .5%
1/3636/365/6 = 180/7776      no casualty vs 2 Fgs : 2.3%

10/3612/361/6 = 120/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 1.5%
10/3612/365/6 = 600/7776    1 Fg  vs 1 Fg : 7.7%
10/3624/361/6=  240/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 3.1%
10/3624/365/6 = 1200/7776   no casualty vs 1 Fg : 15.4%

25/364/366/6   = 600/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty : 7.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776  1 Fg vs no casualty : 25.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776   no casualty at all : 25.7%

Results:
Bombard on IC: 76.8% * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 4.224 IPCs
Killing 2 Fgs: 2.8%+20 IPCs =   + 0.56 IPC
Killing 1 Fg: 27.7% +10 IPCs =  + 2.77 IPCs
Fg killed: 33.4%-10 IPCs =        - 3.34 IPCs
StB killed: 8.8%-12 IPCs =       - 1.056 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 14.4%*-22 IPCs = - 3.168 IPCs

Sum: 7.554 - 7.564 = - 0.01 IPCs damage/StB

First of all, no country should ever be allowed to build units in a captured enemy capital/factory/production centre in any Axis and Allies game ever period.

I will add the Munich factory next game, this is for me just ahead of the other candidates Ruhr and Alsace.
Benefits of Munich are that its sufficiently well behind the front line to begin with, but allows every German home region to be reached by newly built units in one turn.
It also allows Germany to reinforce Austria’s drive in the south.

Will probably also make Petrograd a production centre and Russian capital (though Russia can move the capital to Moscow once in a game.

I’ve considered Canada as the magic 12th PC, perhaps with reduced starting units.

A completely different approach to placement is:

New units may be placed in any home region still contiguous with the capital subject to the following limits each turn:

Capital: 3 units

Controlled home region: 2 units

Contested home region: 1 unit

In addition

UK - Canada: 6 x IPC of units

UK - India 6 x IPC of units

UK, F, G, I - Africa 6 x IPC units (Askaris only)

Probably quite a bit, since heavy stacks of infantry can be nuked out of existance instead of slowely killed through attrition.