R01 - DD (Axis) vs LL (Allies + 12)

I see it this time - I know it’s my turn

@leemorrison You’re being polite. Yes I got my bomber and some air shot down during the first two turns but I overextended very badly with Japan, mostly because I underestimated the value the tanks would give you in terms of exploiting openings in my positions.

This originally was for the old Avalon Hill site, but, only recently found the notes, and, finally completed them, Round Robin for Axis and Allies Sea Minis.

Previously I play the basic game on a island/land side, just rotating the fleets around the map, for 100-200-400-500 pt. fleets, using basic 2-D sticky note papers to make up my fleets(no I was not going to buy boxes to have the plastic versions of fleet series basic to two & three).

Round robin was set up mostly as a paper exercise, ships(100 point fleets/flotillas) are lost/radar not working/poor timing or luck,
bad visibility(e.g.cloudiness/fogged condition). Suddenly visibility clears up & a melee breaks out.

Cause the ships pretty much stumbled into each other(saves on having to maneuver them, did give the BB & some CC with a 3 range shot, a “free” shot). No limit on stacking them(pretty much bunched up), VA hits are added up(saves on paperwork), secondary & third set of guns & torpedoes are allow to hit different targets. Along with subs. surface, they were recharging their batteries, allowing ships to use their basic guns, or, second/third set of guns(for CC & BB), along with torpedoes.

Also no just BB vs. BB, CC vs. CC, and so forth, as generally MAD (mutually assured destruction) occurs.

Basically I started with Axis e.g. Destroyer (as many as you can purchase for a 100pt. fleet) vs. just only Allied Torpedo Boats , then CC, BB, AC(no aircraft), Sub.,
skip Fighter Planes (historically in WWII a USAAF fighter took out a Ge. DD), Bomber,
Torpedo/Dive Bomber. All the Allied variations were also 100 pt. fleets.

After that I repeated that for Axis T.B. going against the same list of Allied ships (now including a Allied DD)., and, so forth, down the list.

The results for Allies e.g. DD vs. Axis ship, and, so forth going down the list, came close statistically to the Axis Round Robin. Thanks, Pellulo

Basically with Round Robin, it was found, that cheaper came out better, a cost of for a 7 pt. DD, will get you fourteen, pretty much puny guns, but, each DD get you one torpedo (even against a BB you are bound to get sixes from fourteen rolls for torpedo).

This works quite well with the other capital ships, CC (light or heavy or big), AC, and, with surface subs(house rule allowing them to be torpedo) . Even with puny ASW the quantity of DDs will overwhelm them.

Now against Air, due to low AA fire they do not do good against bombers; hold their own against Dive/Torpedo bombers.

DD did not do so good against Torpedo Boats(at 0 range & with a capacity of three torps. the TBs cleaned up).

When a USA TB took on Capital ships, generally it won out, except against the AC.
Here the 16 TB vs 11 Axis AC, the dice rolls favored the latter(one AC survived the conflict). Axis bombers cleaned up over puny AA fire of the TB, while the secondary bombers(torp./dive) were wiped out.

Now when a GE. CC took on Allied Capital ships BB & AC, it won out. Subs. were no problem. The ten Ge. CC failed against the 16 Brit. bombers, but, held out against the 12 Brit. Torp. bomber.

Again when this Allied B.B. went against Capital ships it cleaned up on the AC, but, lost out to the more numerous CC. When it went against air power the two Hoods(historical restriction were not applied) were wiped out quickly.

Finally thru the process of elimination when Axis AC vs Allied subs, the three surviving AC out of three destroyed the eight surface subs.

Remember this was based on 100 pt. fleets, so you can have two BB vs 14 bombers(not 2 vs 2 or 14 vs 14). Rarely you have evenly matched opponents in numbers. There was no historical restrictions, no maneuvering/stacking restriction(so fire power was at 0 range, four range BB/CC were given a free shot), subs. were surface so ship’s torpedoes and main/secondary/third set of guns could be used against them.

No fighters were used, AC fought just using their ship guns(no time to scramble their air), and, even thought I give a one for defense for subs. against fighters and TB & DB, I passed on this(along with the house rule of letting surface subs. use their deck gun).

If you want to try this on a grander scale, using the map board and manuerving and so forth, please let me know of the results.

Next and finally an example of play with 12 GE. DD vs in Round Robin the Allies, thanks, Pellulo

Example of Round Robin:
Whit Ge. DD that cost 8 pt., gave me a fleet of 12 of them(for a 100pt. fleet), vs., USN PT Boat fleet of 16(each cost 6 pt., for a 100pt. fleet). The end results were
4 surviving USN PT Boats.

Same Axis setup vs. two Battle Cruiser Hoods British, the results were 6 Axis DDs left.

Same Axis setup vs. USN 11 St. Lo AC, the results were 2 Axis DD left.

Same Axis setup vs. 8 Truculent British Sub., the results were 7 Axis DD left.

Same Axis setup vs. 16 British Halifax bombers, the results were 10 bombers left.

Same Axis setup vs. 10 British Swordfish Torpedo Bombers, with 8.5 Axis DDs left.

For these kind of setups some quality is important, but, like Uncle Joe said…“quantity has a quality to it”…, Thanks, Pellulo
Pellulo

Finally(took forever to get the information for it), Round Robin for that Axis and Allies Sea Minis Convoy Scenario, thanks, Pellulo

I played them with the extra Allies 5 transports(cannot lose more than 40% of them), going across the sea side of the map,&, putting 5 small islands, in the way.

Since both fleets, are of hundred points, the Axis got two Japanese subs, and, two Ge. subs, that both fired at 0 & 1 range a spread of three torpodoes, and, the Japanese “tin fish” could go up to a range of three spaces. The Italian subs, two of them, fired two torpedoes at 0 & 1 range, &, like the Ge. subs. had a range of just 0-1-2.

The Allied fleet was a mixture of low costs Baby Flats (even if sunk, they still be one left) rather than one large aircraft carrier. DD or low cost CC with a good ASW(since the subs were not going to be surface, torpedoes, and, gun power were of little use). Also a Allied sub. or two.

The Japanese subs could get a free shot at Allied ships, cause of their long range torps., but once committed, a speed of one(for all subs.), compared to two for a DD, left no room for retreat.

The surface ships have to be in the same space of the sub, to use their ASW. With about two or so quickly swamp a sub. and sink it. Much less the air power, that can hit the Axis ships, way before the subs. sight the transports(no …“happy time”… for these sub. captains).

Also starting way back two spaces from the end of the map, did not leave time, for a sub(s) to get behind the convoy group(perhaps Pacific rule of submerged sub. might come in handy). It came out mostly to side & headlong torp. shots.

With air power via AC, land base bomber group(every other turn), DD & CC & TB/Sub. escorts, its not to hard to get a convoy through the “Wolf pack”. Especially if you run the ships along the top part of the map, and, not have to worry about your port side flank.

Game ended with all 8 Axis Subs. lost, Allies lost 2 DD & one sub.(left 5 transports, 2 baby flattops, 2 ship borne & one land base bomber with ASW, and, one sub. and two DD).

Finally the Round Robin variations. Thanks, Pellulo

Round Robin for the Axis, no changes(did toy with a ideal of a large surface raider/Q ships), for the Allies a fleet of just Air Power, fleet of just subs, and, a fleet of just DD/CC, thanks, Pellulo
Pellulo

Game History

Round: 22 Purchase Units - Germans Germans buy 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 17 armour and 97 infantry moved from East Europe to Karelia S.S.R. 2 armour moved from Germany to Karelia S.S.R. 3 fighters moved from Germany to Karelia S.S.R. 1 fighter moved from West Europe to Karelia S.S.R. Combat - Germans Battle in Karelia S.S.R. Germans attack with 19 armour, 4 fighters and 97 infantry British defend with 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 33 infantry; Americans defend with 1 aaGun, 10 armour, 9 fighters and 48 infantry; Russians defend with 1 factory and 6 infantry 4 fighters owned by the Germans retreated 18 armour owned by the Germans retreated to East Europe Russians win with 10 armour, 1 bomber, 11 fighters and 23 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -104 Casualties for Germans: 1 armour and 97 infantry Casualties for Americans: 48 infantry Casualties for Russians: 6 infantry Casualties for British: 10 infantry Non Combat Move - Germans 4 fighters moved from Karelia S.S.R. to Germany 9 infantry moved from Germany to East Europe Place Units - Germans 9 infantry placed in Germany Turn Complete - Germans Germans collect 25 PUs; end with 26 PUs

ger-22 (1).tsvg

@VictoryFirst said in 2025 Classic tournament round 1 Gamerman01 v VictoryFirst (Axis):

in the end it worked out beautifully.

I had lucky results in China J1, and again against the Japanese battleships and loaded carrier off French Indo China

The Japanese fleet was more important than normal because only one factory was built

Very gracious, thank you!

@Martin Yes the “miss” on my part was using Japan’s bomber offensively when it could have at least NCM’d from Manchuria -> Germany to give one more HP to the units there. That might have made some level of difference in the final fight but in hindsight, once the UK air got as many kills as it did it was unlikely that Germany was going to survive.

Good luck to you as well!

@DoManMacgee Just to make sure you know, Classic has been added to the league (under play boardgames) so you can enjoy matching up with other Classic opponents to your heart’s content, supported by a community, moderator, league rules, and a rankings board

Get in on the ground floor!