Sub sneak attack question

From many games of trying both J1 and J2, I have found that the former is more advantageous if you have average luck.  The latter is a better choice if you are worried about getting diced by a stubborn UK battleship that never misses while your blind Japanese pilots circle around hopelessly.  J3 just plain stinks and is usually a sign of a novice Axis player.

@ShadowHAwk:

@Caesar:

@PainState:

Ok, lets take a step back.

So, should Subs be able to bypass Denmark and go into the Baltic? Who cares, really? Lets just say the house rule is subs can enter the Baltic Sea. Is the UK or USA going to invest in subs to enter the Baltic for the sole purpose of killing off the German fleet? There are no convoy routes in the Baltic so that is in essence the only purpose of them going in in the first place.

Germany has a DEST with their fleet and a AB on W. Germany with planes. It is a suicide mission by the Allies to send in a sub or 2.

In the big picture of the game, it is a total non factor.

Same scenario with Italy. Lets say the house rule says subs can go through the Suez. What? UK is worried about a stack of 6 Italy Subs rampaging through the Suez? It is not even a point of discussion and thus a non factor.

Except the Suez and Panama are a moot point because those are canals that have locks which I agree doesn’t make sense however in the context of the Turkey, Denmark, and Gibraltar, submarines could in theory sneak pass these zones and historically speaking, did.

Denmark strait was pretty heavy mined, there where nets and underwater microphones. So yes a lone sub might get through but not nearly viable enough to make it for the context of this game. Units are not just a single unit they are a group of said units. Scapa flow was also at risk from subs with its many outgoing channels and yes 1 sub managed to get in it does not mean that the whole base was crap.

Well Allies going into that German area is foolish. Home Fleet just blockaded that region anyways however the others had enemy and neutral ships passing all the time.

@knp7765:

So you are suggesting that the British player loses his capital so that he can sink the German navy? Seems kind of far fetched to me. Yeah, I guess if the German navy were taken out, it would help the US Navy later on and they could liberate London possibly. In the mean time, Germany got to plunder the British treasury and run hog wild on Russia while Italy gets strong in the Med and Africa since the UK can no longer replace their losses there. I suppose India could send stuff over to face Italy, but what if they are being pressured by Japan?

Yes, but Germany spent 2 rounds of income on a fleet so they essentially lose their ground units, probably some air units, the French treasury and whatever ground they have left would be sitting on London, assuming this worked/works.

So what’s holding back the Russians at that point?  They can DOW the round London falls.  (great, now I have that Fergie song in my head!  Bastages!!!)

Japan may be able to take any IC that the UK has/builds in Africa/Mideast.  A Japan that does a J4 along with sending its entire fleet into the Indian Ocean to take Egypt is tough to beat along with a successful German G1.

Hi Wittman,  That does help and thank you.

@RedHunter:

@soulfein:

@Zhukov44:

Why bother if I’m not serious about the Sea Lion bluff and USA can buy bombers to reinforce London anyway?

to deny uk investing early in middle east, thus giving ita a real chance to make 30+ early on, instead of getting convoyd out of the game without doing anything at all.

plus the initial naval investment (ac+trans) actually helps ger against barb, enabling ger to have a solid stack drinking in novgorod g3.

Invest with what fleet lol? UK fleet should be gone turn 1. Its not that hard to sink it. Just use fighters and fleet correctly. And if you want to annoy the UK take Scotland turn 2. But build armor for Russia. 1 tech token and 4 armor…best German 1 build I have found for Alpha 3. You are not going to be able to pull off Sealion unless the UK is stupid and even if you pull it off you bring USA into the war a turn early for which Japan is not thankful to you. You won’t normally be able to hold the UK and build enough for Russia, depending on turn 1 USA builds. If they think you are going to sealion you can bet they are going to build to counter turn 1.

I have said this before and I will say it again. If France doesn’t fall and the UK has fleet left you can pretty much call the game turn 1. It digs Germany into a huge hole they have a hard time recovering from.

sigh those transports plus ac built in g1 is not for sealion it s for reinforcing barbarossa… with that build u can stack novgorod in g3 - fastest way to make money from barb with ger.

meant uk can invest in middle east (factories + newly purchased land/naval units), ofc ger should hit uk navy in g1 that s a no brainer.

taking scotland on turn2 doesnt help barbarossa at all.

slightly off topic, usa is already in war in 2nd round max if u want to threaten a pac win, so sealion doesnt interfere with that.

if allies think ger s going for sealion and build to counter it, that s all the better for axis, since it means barbarossa will be much stronger, because allies built against sealion, not barb.

Oh! So true, I just read rules again… obviously I misread it (and misplayed it) with my boardgames for quite a while

Thank you for the added answer! :)

Bruce.

Gibraltar is the only exception.