Spring 42 Balance Poll

@Zhukov44:

Agreed that Germany takes a whole lot of risks G1, but I think considering R1 and UK1, Allies are exposing themselves even more.  SZ15 and Egy can be really dicey early in the game, and Ukraine and West Russia can both be decisive.  An extra inf to Lib is massive imo because it can make a UK1 Egy counter risky or potentially disastrous.

Whichever side is favored, first round dice will always be more significant than bids.

Exactly. But Germany has the most potential game ending round 1 fights. If they only loses 1 plane and take Egypt with at least 3 pieces, and take West Russia and don’t get hammered in Ukraine, they’re in business. It got to the point in our games where we would start over after disasterous German first turns, even though we weren’t spreading ourselves too thin. The axis have been winning the majority of our games but it’s more even. Whoever thinks allies need a bid are not playing them aggressively enough.

Oh I think the allies are normally played plenty aggressively in the games I see against Fortress Europe.  Using Fortress Europe, I have seen Germany have a poor (not terrible but poor) round 1 and still win.  Taking Egy with 3 pieces (3 land pieces or including air?) is a luxury for Germany, really, on average, Germany ought to lose 2 pieces and losing 3 or 1 is not that statistically unlikely.

I certainly will agree that Germany does have to take many risks with some high value pieces versus other high value pieces.  I always dread rolling Germany1, I just calm myself knowing that these battles have to be fought and it will be what it will be.  I have never been diced badly as Germany.

Now Russia1 seems to be a game swinger for me.  I have lost on Russia1 by taking 11 hits from the Germans and won as the Germans on R1 by inflicting defeat in Ukr and massive causalities in Wru.

It would be interesting to figure out a variation of AA where the rolls could be a bit more bell-curved.  It would be cumbersome but a system where groups of dice were averaged is one way.

Russia is next in line for those game deciding round 1 fights. We’ve had games were they’ve got 1 hit the first attack on WRus and Ukr and suffered something like 8 casualties. Germany can just steamroll them at that point.

UK isn’t affected first round that much. It takes at least couple rounds of heavy casualties and low income to do them in. I’ve seen UK be very effective with only 3 trans.

Japan and US are hardly ever under any threat. It’s up to them to seal the deal.

Saw this and thought about it….I think the Allies are at a disadvantage.  I’ve mentioned it in other posts, but the German sub in SZ8 is, IMO, the biggest game changer.  If they take out the American fleet in G1, the allies are in deep poop.  I would love to see a DD to balance it out, but would love to see a Japan and US sub added in the Pacific.  One for each doesn’t do it for me.

What do you do to SZ 2 in order to achieve your 50% battle off of US?

@Mallery29:

Saw this and thought about it….I think the Allies are at a disadvantage.� I’ve mentioned it in other posts, but the German sub in SZ8 is, IMO, the biggest game changer.� If they take out the American fleet in G1, the allies are in deep poop.� I would love to see a DD to balance it out, but would love to see a Japan and US sub added in the Pacific.� One for each doesn’t do it for me.

That isn’t a game changer. I assume you mean attacking both SZ10 and SZ2. Without the sub, the odds on SZ2 are 62% for G, while attacking SZ10 you have 50% odds. Which means that the combined odds of both attacks to succeed are (62/100 * 50/100) giving you 31% odds of sinking both the UK and US fleets. If you’re counting on those odds, than you’re just gambling.

Even if you sink both fleets I wouldn’t consider it a game changer. There’s plenty of times where the Allies won’t land on Europe/Africa on round 1, depending on the situation.

If you just attack sink the US fleet, that is actually even better for the Allies. The US lose 26 IPC worth but keep the UK Battleship and transport or 27 IPC.

I understand lots of people do the attack on the BB…I don’t…my typical German move is like this (w/ assumption Russian sub defending BB, West Russia has fallen, and Ukraine was crippled, but not taken…however, if Ukraine was taken, this only affects the use of 1 fighter. If Ukraine wasn’t attacked, even better). Have seen Norway or Belorussia attack, but I think the odds are bad for Russia to take 3 battles, so something has to give.
G1 Buy: 3inf, 1 sub, 5 tanks
SZ8 sub to American fleet. 
Bomber, Balkan fighter, UKR fighter (if avail), Libya inf/tank, S. Europe tank/inf invade Egypt…BB should (God willing) wipe out DD.
French and German fighter to take out Cruiser.
Norway 2inf/fighter, 2 Belorussia inf, 1 E. Europe fighter to Karelia.
Combats occur.  Egypt, Karelia fall. IPC 42.  Expected losses: 2inf in Egypt, 1inf Karelia, 1 fighter to cruiser. 50% chance of sub success (sorry, I’m a black and white guy…either the cruiser will kill me or it won’t).
NCM:  Position DD one SZ out, possibly blocking Norway or SZ7 (so two SZ out). Either leave trans or move one out if I move DD two out.  (Realizing these will be sacked, but sack worth it if Brit planes have to spread, and esp. if DD can hit on D).
Move 2Germany inf to France, 1 German inf, all tanks to E.Europe.  Abandon front line @ Ukraine and Belorussia, leaving 1 inf each. Move Balkans to E. Europe (if not used to retake Ukraine).  Move S. Europe inf to France, move art to Balkans.  Egypt Bomber, and 2 fighters land in Libya, Algeria art moves to Libya to defend planes. 1 or 2 fighters that attacked Cruiser move to France, 1 Karelia plane to Germany, the other to France.  I’m mentally moving everything so I hope that did it.  Place 2inf in Germany, 1 Sub Baltic, 4 tanks Germany, and 1inf/tank in S.Europe.  This sets up with the DD, trans, Belorussia, Ukraine, Norway (assuming Brits dropped additional support…), and possibly Karelia being attacked.  Algeria WILL NOT being invaded due to 5 fighters and a Bomber able to wipe out a UK BB and US Cruiser (if sub failed). G2 will be 4inf, 1 sub, 4tanks, 1art.  Med Trans will pick up tank/inf from S. Eurpoe and use BB to eliminate TransJordan (1 IPC).  2 Egypt tanks split acquiring 4 Africa IPCs. E. Europe staging ground retakes Ukraine and Belorussia and Karelia (if req’d) at minimal cost using Bomber and Germany fighter.
NCM Libyan Planes to France/Germany, Bomber and fighter land in E.Europe.  All purchased units will be placed in Germany.  I should be at 47 IPC at this point (Karelia/W. Russia cancel out), if Norway fell, then I’ll be down to 45.  2 Germany inf to France, 5 tanks to E. Europe.  I will spread the subs prior to placing, but I expect them to try to hit something, and when they do, it will cost them…from here on out, its lots of (inf, a fighter(or bomber), and 3 tanks ). I’ll fortify Germany/France/E.Europe and trade punches on the Russian lines.  I do this because I know on J2 Burtiya and US Asia has fallen, and if there isn’t a complex out there, I guarantee India is due in two turns.  If an IB on UK opens up, good night, game over, drive home safely…

@Mallery29:

I understand lots of people do the attack on the BB…I don’t…my typical German move is like this (w/ assumption Russian sub defending BB, West Russia has fallen, and Ukraine was crippled, but not taken…

Russia has 90% odds on Ukraine on R1, which means that Germany cannot realistically expect for Ukraine to survive. You can also attack both SZ2 and Egypt (with 2 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, 1 FTR) both with 90% odds.

G1 Buy: 3inf, 1 sub, 5 tanks
SZ8 sub to American fleet. 
Bomber, Balkan fighter, UKR fighter (if avail), Libya inf/tank, S. Europe tank/inf invade Egypt…BB should (God willing) wipe out DD.
French and German fighter to take out Cruiser.
Norway 2inf/fighter, 2 Belorussia inf, 1 E. Europe fighter to Karelia.
Combats occur.  Egypt, Karelia fall. IPC 42.  Expected losses: 2inf in Egypt, 1inf Karelia, 1 fighter to cruiser. 50% chance of sub success (sorry, I’m a black and white guy…either the cruiser will kill me or it won’t).

Everything OK, but why attack SZ10? Send the submarine to SZ1 instead and you’ll sink the UK transport for sure (which counts more since the UK is the one who can pressure Germany the easiest).

NCM:  Position DD one SZ out, possibly blocking Norway or SZ7 (so two SZ out). Either leave trans or move one out if I move DD two out.  (Realizing these will be sacked, but sack worth it if Brit planes have to spread, and esp. if DD can hit on D).
Move 2Germany inf to France, 1 German inf, all tanks to E.Europe.  Abandon front line @ Ukraine and Belorussia, leaving 1 inf each. Move Balkans to E. Europe (if not used to retake Ukraine).  Move S. Europe inf to France, move art to Balkans.  Egypt Bomber, and 2 fighters land in Libya, Algeria art moves to Libya to defend planes. 1 or 2 fighters that attacked Cruiser move to France, 1 Karelia plane to Germany, the other to France.  I’m mentally moving everything so I hope that did it.  Place 2inf in Germany, 1 Sub Baltic, 4 tanks Germany, and 1inf/tank in S.Europe.  This sets up with the DD, trans, Belorussia, Ukraine, Norway (assuming Brits dropped additional support…), and possibly Karelia being attacked.  Algeria WILL NOT being invaded due to 5 fighters and a Bomber able to wipe out a UK BB and US Cruiser (if sub failed).

I love just sending the transports to be sunk later and land 4 US units on Africa on US1.

G2 will be 4inf, 1 sub, 4tanks, 1art.  Med Trans will pick up tank/inf from S. Eurpoe and use BB to eliminate TransJordan (1 IPC). 2 Egypt tanks split acquiring 4 Africa IPCs.

Sorry? You’re assuming UK counterattack on Egypt? LOL. It is a standard Allied UK1 as well, even if Germany has 2-3 units there to attack with 3 INF, 1 FTR and 1 BMR and even send the cruiser for the land shot, if necessary.

E. Europe staging ground retakes Ukraine and Belorussia and Karelia (if req’d) at minimal cost using Bomber and Germany fighter.
NCM Libyan Planes to France/Germany, Bomber and fighter land in E.Europe.  All purchased units will be placed in Germany.  I should be at 47 IPC at this point (Karelia/W. Russia cancel out), if Norway fell, then I’ll be down to 45.

40/41. Forget about those 4 IPCs on Africa.

2 Germany inf to France, 5 tanks to E. Europe.  I will spread the subs prior to placing, but I expect them to try to hit something, and when they do, it will cost them…from here on out, its lots of (inf, a fighter(or bomber), and 3 tanks ). I’ll fortify Germany/France/E.Europe and trade punches on the Russian lines.  I do this because I know on J2 Burtiya and US Asia has fallen, and if there isn’t a complex out there, I guarantee India is due in two turns.  If an IB on UK opens up, good night, game over, drive home safely…

Again assuming that the Soviets will conveniently leave their 6 INF on Buryatia to be destroyed on J2. And India should be conquered at J2-3 actually for Japan to build an IC there as quickly as possible.

IB on UK? You the Germans conquering UK? LOL again. Whatever, the Allied playing you are described can be resumed to 1 word: unexperienced.

Russia has 90% odds on Ukraine on R1, which means that Germany cannot realistically expect for Ukraine to survive. You can also attack both SZ2 and Egypt (with 2 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, 1 FTR) both with 90% odds.

You say 90%, but they will not be left with much if they take UKR.

Sorry? You’re assuming UK counterattack on Egypt? LOL. It is a standard Allied UK1 as well, even if Germany has 2-3 units there to attack with 3 INF, 1 FTR and 1 BMR and even send the cruiser for the land shot, if necessary.

where do I assume UK countering Egypt?  I never said they would. I said my 2 tanks remaining in Egypt since I lost the inf would take 4 IPCs in Africa.

Again assuming that the Soviets will conveniently leave their 6 INF on Buryatia to be destroyed on J2. And India should be conquered at J2-3 actually for Japan to build an IC there as quickly as possible.

Not a big fan of ICs. While I agree and understand it’s purpose, I like pulling Russian troops off the line to look East.  If UK didn’t build an IC, I agree J2 could be possible.  But I like pushing to the Russian Outer defense perimeter.

IB on UK? You the Germans conquering UK? LOL again. Whatever, the Allied playing you are described can be resumed to 1 word: unexperienced.

Where did I say conquer UK?  The goal is to reduce the IC to rubble. But that’s if I don’t need the Bomber to do something else…it’s a “if bored” statement.

@Mallery29:

Russia has 90% odds on Ukraine on R1, which means that Germany cannot realistically expect for Ukraine to survive. You can also attack both SZ2 and Egypt (with 2 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, 1 FTR) both with 90% odds.

You say 90%, but they will not be left with much if they take UKR.

Russia starts with 12 INF, 2 ART and 4 ARM that can attack German forces plus 6 INF on Kaz/Novo/Evenki that can be pulled back to Russia. They’ll should 3 INF on West Russia on average, which means that their losses will be 6 INF, 1 ART and 2/3 ARM (you can only send 2 ARM and still have 90%) and destroy 6 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM and 1 German FTR. Russia comes out winning of both attacks and the Germans still need to spend units to retake Ukraine, so that’s a net gain for Russia.
Plus, it still has 12 INF, 1 ART and 1 ARM + new builds (3 INF, 3 ARM come just nicely).
And they won’t be left with much? Right…

Sorry? You’re assuming UK counterattack on Egypt? LOL. It is a standard Allied UK1 as well, even if Germany has 2-3 units there to attack with 3 INF, 1 FTR and 1 BMR and even send the cruiser for the land shot, if necessary.

where do I assume UK countering Egypt?  I never said they would. I said my 2 tanks remaining in Egypt since I lost the inf would take 4 IPCs in Africa.

Exactly - an experienced UK player will almost always attack and destroy those 2 armor. If he’s not, then find another Allied player how knows how to play.

Again assuming that the Soviets will conveniently leave their 6 INF on Buryatia to be destroyed on J2. And India should be conquered at J2-3 actually for Japan to build an IC there as quickly as possible.

Not a big fan of ICs. While I agree and understand it’s purpose, I like pulling Russian troops off the line to look East.  If UK didn’t build an IC, I agree J2 could be possible.  But I like pushing to the Russian Outer defense perimeter.

Push as much as you want. Russia can trade space for time - the Russian player is a fool if it disputes 1 IPC territories like Yakut or Buryatia, since it’s spending 3 IPCs for each infantry used and receiving 1 in return. Plus doesn’t even need to send any units east during the first rounds. It just has to let Japan advance to  Novo/Kazakh/Evenki and then smash them.

Exactly - an experienced UK player will almost always attack and destroy those 2 armor. If he’s not, then find another Allied player how knows how to play.

Cruiser, fighter, 2inf vs. 2 tanks?  Odds are in your favor, but if Germany was to take Egypt again( not that I’m one for pulling lots of units into Africa), say, the art in Libya (moved from Algeria), and 2inf from S.Europe, the BB, 2 fighter, I understand the IPC trade….but I’m kind of curiouis what your UK1 buy would be (knowing it is to support the BB).

I’d hold my Japan lines at Yak and the western US front (sorry, can’t remember the name of China’s counterpart), and this would just expedite a collapse on Russia’s eastern front. (I’d stay out of Russia’s range by 1)  I now see why you say India fall on J2/3, but for the sake of Egypt doesn’t seem to make sense.  This strat would only make Japan even more aggressive for me.

I really need to get my own computer back…

@Mallery29:

Exactly - an experienced UK player will almost always attack and destroy those 2 armor. If he’s not, then find another Allied player how knows how to play.

Cruiser, fighter, 2inf vs. 2 tanks?  Odds are in your favor, but if Germany was to take Egypt again( not that I’m one for pulling lots of units into Africa), say, the art in Libya (moved from Algeria), and 2inf from S.Europe, the BB, 2 fighter, I understand the IPC trade….but I’m kind of curiouis what your UK1 buy would be (knowing it is to support the BB).

UK cruiser, 3 INF, 1 FTR and 1 BMR can reach Egypt. My usual UK1 buy is 1 carrier, 2 destroyers, regardless of if the Battleship survived or not.

I’d hold my Japan lines at Yak and the western US front (sorry, can’t remember the name of China’s counterpart), and this would just expedite a collapse on Russia’s eastern front. (I’d stay out of Russia’s range by 1)  I now see why you say India fall on J2/3, but for the sake of Egypt doesn’t seem to make sense.  This strat would only make Japan even more aggressive for me.

I really need to get my own computer back….

What do you mean by collapse? With proper Allied support Russia can hold Germany and deal with Japan on Yakut/Sinkiang. The issue is, Japan has to advance through 3 separate routes on Asia and still threaten UK possessions on Africa. And the reason is simply one: $$$. The Axis need to reach 84 income as quickly as possible and for that they need all of Asia.

I’ll looking forward for your computer to be back. Have you checked meanwhile my Spring 1942 articles at the Article Submission section on the forums?

I do the carrier/2DDs as well, trying to counter the German counterstrike possibility.  I assume you have the Bomber in Caucus after UK1?  Becuase if you came from UK itself, that would put your bomber in a bad bad position.

Well I typically will not do a three front with Japan.  That’s why I usually just stick to the US/Russian routes because I assume there will be a bit more resistance on the southern end, and that would spread forces thin (usually send inf up the middle for prevent retaliation and then my main forces sit on the nothern side.  I just think with Japan holding at 30 plus everyround now, I know now J2 options are wide wide open….

I’ll take a look at the forums over there yet…will check it out.

Never played with the Dardanelles open before ( I know it is an option), but I always wondered how that would change things.

It hurts a lot I think…you deplete the German Air Force, it’s 10x easier for the Allies to invade, that’s why I don’t attack the BB…some people do, I don’t…

But I agree, any loss of a Japanese capital ship or losing German Air Force is critical…that’s why I get selective…since I hit Egypt with a lot as is, if I lose it on a counter by the Brits, it will hurt, but I think the help that it gives Japan, just easily counters the lost (especiallyl next German turn I can get my fighters back to France, where they are needed most.)

Right now though, I am happy beyond belief to not only being able to learn Global, but play it as well…I just wish I would have had Margaritas afterwards!  :evil:

@Cromwell_Dude:

@Mallery29:

I understand lots of people do the attack on the BB…I don’t…

That G1 move against the battleship is very risky. I tend to attack the UK battleship on G1. However, when you get bad rolls, Germany is out a lot of units and UK still has the battleship. I attack the UK battleship because of a cost/benefit analysis-what that battleship will do if you don’t destroy it.

I guess it begs a question. If you lose the bomber, fighter, and submarine on G1 attacking the UK battleship, how does it really hurt Germany? What do you normally do with those units in later battles? Is their loss worth the risks?

The G1 attack on SZ2 has around 90% odds (can’t remember exactly right now) for G to sink the Battleship plus transport while keep the bomber and most times the fighter (you should lose a fighter on the attacks on both SZ2 and SZ13).
It is more rare to see the attack on SZ2 fail than the attack on SZ15 (Battleship vs Destroyer), which have the same odds. The reason is that for the attack on SZ2 to fail, the Soviet sub needs to hit on a 1, otherwise you should be OK.

I still think the game is fairly balanced.

@Cromwell_Dude:

LOL! The Soviet sub attack is what always gets me on G1. I’ve got low luck. I’m also one of those guys that always gets the red lights. But, you’re right about the statistics. I have regretted my failure to not pursue that G1 attack most of the time. A good Allied player will not let that battleship just sit there.

I have an hierarchy for the 5 major German moves/attacks, that goes kinda like this:

1. Counter West Russia
2. Stack Ukraine
3. Stack Karelia
4. Attack Egypt
5. Attack SZ2

An average R1 will remove most of the top options for Germany but when it doesn’t I plenty of times skip attacking SZ2 and focus on other moves.

@Hobbes:

I have an hierarchy for the 5 major German moves/attacks, that goes kinda like this:

1. Counter West Russia
2. Stack Ukraine
3. Stack Karelia
4. Attack Egypt
5. Attack SZ2

An average R1 will remove most of the top options for Germany but when it doesn’t I plenty of times skip attacking SZ2 and focus on other moves.

Even with a decent R1 west russia battle, you can pretty much stack Karelia every time, unless USSR also buys 3 arm. Do you consider 3inf 3 arm as the superior R1 buy?

@jiman79:

Even with a decent R1 west russia battle, you can pretty much stack Karelia every time, unless USSR also buys 3 arm. Do you consider 3inf 3 arm as the superior R1 buy?

Yup. Another one I’ve seen and tried is 4 arm, 1 art. That one really makes Germany think twice about moving stacks forward (or buying planes on G1) :)