Recovering Italy after Taranto… Can it be done?

@Herr:

@oysteilo:

@Herr:

Isn’t that a bit slow?

I1: take Bulgaria
I2: units move to Romania
I3: can-opening into Bessarabia and/or Eastern Poland

So in that scenario, the German followup will be as late as G4.

I think the important can-opening happens around (I4), I5, I6 in order to break through into volgograd and caucasus and later to threaten middle east by italy taking NW persia

The idea of can-opening is, to take the territory with Italy in order to allow Germany, and especially the German planes, to reinforce it against a Russian counterstrike. So I don’t think that any Italian drive to the south servers the purpose of can-opening because Russia is unlikely to have sufficient forces to strike back at either Volgograd or the Caucasus anyway in case the Germans would have taken it without Italian assistance. Which doesn’t imply that going that way is bad for Italy because there’s a lot of bonus to be had. But if you’re talking can-opening, then I’d say Bryansk on I5 would be the way to go.

@aequitas:

With Bulgaria, Yugo and Greece given to Italy, what punch will Germany have?
Any Allied player will be happy to harvest Italy…

Agreed. I’d much rather give Bulgaria to Germany to assimilate those troops and add some punch to the German drive into Russia.

I might be using it idfferent than you. The other idea of canopening is to force a russian retreat.
let say you stand in rostov with a german and italian stack, with at least 40 german tank+mech and 5-7 italian units., and 7+ italians. Then ussr has to retreat to moscow. if he stacks byransk, you can take tambov with the italians, and moscow falls on the german turn. Since ussr has to retreat, you get to take cauc, stalingrad and begin taking the middle east immediately.

Germany helping Italy in the Med all depends on if you are looking to knock Russia out with a quick punch or throttle them slowly to death. If you’re taking the long game approach, a German fleet in the Med is worth every IPC. It creates an incredible headache for the Allied player who expects to dominate the Med early. Then it becomes an arms race, and guess who is closer to their supply lines?

And once the Med becomes an arms race, the Allied player often stops buying as much with the US in the Pacific… and Japan can wear down Russia from the back.

Just general thoughts - game by game will obviously be variable.

@taamvan:

1.  buy infantry.   Help Germany defend.  Defend yourself so Germany doesn’t have to.   Warding the allies off the Atlantic wall is very easy if you don’t waste Italy’s troops or money.
2.  buy mechs and tanks.  Have them follow Germany into Russia.  At a key moment, Italy will be able to rush forwards and kill the screen protecting a key Russian counterattack force, which Germany can then blitzkrieg through.
3.  fly your bomber all the way from Romania to china.   from China, have it land on Japan.   Use this and/or German bombers to kill the screens that the US is using to protect their key offensive fleet.
4.  don’t worry about Africa.   Even with your full navy, it is very difficult to either leave the med or defend it against a determined attack.   Even with your full African army, you will need very strong support to defeat the UK, unless they make a stupid mistake
5.  if you intend to take the extra assets for Italy (southern france, Bulgaria, etc.) do it with a plan in mind.  It is much easier for Germany to use this money to strong effect.   
6.  take Gibraltar, but you’re not going to hold it.  You may need it as a base for either Germany or Italy, or just to slow the allies down/get your bonus.   Use a destroyer or a cruiser to block the allies entry into the med from SZ92
7. don’t lose your airforce.  it can go all sorts of different directions to follow up on Germany.  It can hang in western Germany and do Italian sea lion.  It can attack Russia with your mobile force
8.  you can attack UK with Italy.   It helps if you have 2 or more transports;  Sea Lion is far more effective if you attack with 2 (or even 3 lol) Axis powers one after another.   It may still not be a winner, but it makes it far easier for Germany to win even if you lose everything with Italy.
9.  Africa is a distraction.  Egypt is a distraction.   Your bonuses are not keepable and are largely, distractions.  Don’t mess with 1 IPC territories.  win the game.   
10.  Syria and Bryansk/Belarus are better goals than any NO or abstract victory (high income alone).

Thanks for this sound advice!

Thanks so much guys. I like all of your input and I will be sure to use them. Please also help me with my question in the recent “please help” section.

Thanks,
          SJS063

Good catch

He probably meant 2 or less, but that’s not what he said  :-)

@Boldfresh:

honestly, i think this game is awesome with it’s CURRENT setup.  i feel like the allies need nothing.

I don’t see how the axis can lose in this setup if the allies receive nothing.

No, otherwise my US planes could land in Ireland and I woulnd’t be asking for the BB block

Thanks, I appreciate it.

More Allied trickery going on.