@the-general-0 Trust me, you’re going to want to go forward rather than backward. The 2nd edition rules and setup for Europe can be found on the downloads page. There were no changes to the Europe map in the 2nd edtion.
First game of Pacific
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Hello everyone! I purchased A&A pacific about three weeks ago and tonight I am going to have my first game. It is going to be a 1v1 game. I just wanted to know two things.
First, who should play which side?
Second, should we use the Alpha changes?
As for the first question, I have only ever played A&A with him (and he with me) so we have equal amounts of table time (we played original and spring '42) However, I have had a majority of the victories (not by much however) and I am the one who visits A&A.org from time to time; read the articles; all that jazz. I must therefore conclude I am the more experienced one. (I say this assuming that it might influence decisions)
Secondly, I keep reading here on the forums that Pacific standalone is biased toward Japan. I wouldn’t want the axis player to have too much power, ruining the fun for the two of us (we prefer a game to be close, winning or losing is never an issue.) But, on the other hand, I do plan on getting Europe soon, which would mean that maybe the changes may not be as nesasary (from what I have read Global seems to be a bit more balanced)
Your opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance!
P.S. This site is awesome! :-D
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The Alpha setup is also applicable to Global, and I would recommend it. I think the more experienced player should get the axis, especially for global, since the US makes so much
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I’ve read about the alpha rules and they seem to be good, i just don’t like that there are soo many changes though. For our first game at least I think I want to go more the KISS path and just implement a rule that I saw posted somewhere around here. It is when America gets attacked they get an Imediate boost to there income, that is they get the extra 40 to spend when they buy units. It sounds like a nice simple fix and I always interpreted the rule as that way anyways =P.
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I’ve read about the alpha rules and they seem to be good, i just don’t like that there are soo many changes though. For our first game at least I think I want to go more the KISS path and just implement a rule that I saw posted somewhere around here. It is when America gets attacked they get an Imediate boost to there income, that is they get the extra 40 to spend when they buy units. It sounds like a nice simple fix and I always interpreted the rule as that way anyways =P.
The problem with that is that a J2 and J3 attack are balanced, and so giving the US 40 more ipcs in those cases makes the game broken in favor of allies.
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Another one I have heard is just not allowing an attack J1. Still I don’t really like that one all that much either seeing as it limits strategy and choice rather than promote it. Still, I have been reading other posts, especially those concerning alpha and it seems that is pretty good. I might just try it yet =P
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Since the “alpha” changes will be pretty close to Larry’s recommended changes to the Pac setup, you might as well play with them. From our experiences using them they make for a much more entertaining game and you still have the freedom to make any attack. Good luck with your game, and having played the Euro side, especially with these changes the Pacific game is possibly the much more entertaining one.
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Welcome to the Axis and Allies world.
I’d play the game out of box, use paper, rock, scissors to pick the Japanese player.
If you don’t read about the “best” move it will be fun to figure it out, until then, the game plays well.
Either side can win, a veteran player has a chance against the Japanese even with the bias. Others might argue that point.
New players should not have any problem learning the game together.
There are many options to try out. As long as you do different things it will stay fun.
Playing the same way, breaks any game in my opinion.If you are the better player, give Japan to the weaker player for more balance.
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The first game is probably going to be a massive allies victory. Japan can easily win with a J1 attack using the original setup, but they can’t afford to make any mistakes the first two or three rounds. One successful assault on Japanese transports and the game can remain out of reach for them. The alpha setup looks like it makes a J1 attack less fruitful for the allies.
I have played one game with the alpha setup. I played as though Europe was going on, so didn’t attack until J3. This ended up being a landslide ot Japan. You just need to make sure you are able to hold Yunnan fairly quickly (read here, first two transports worth of trooops to FIC. I would also recomend building a minor IC on the mainland turn 1. When global, I like to put it in the territory north of shanghai (so can get to Manchuria and defend quickly, if need be). When just Pacific, maybe in Shnghai. If this is placed J1, it can produce J2 (3 men) and transports that unloaded in J1 in FIC can head north and pick them up (and one unit from Manchuria, and head straight back to FIC, take HK, or the Phillipines. Of course, good dice and conservative play is helpful.
I also think, if you don’t do a J1, a minor IC in FIC is good. Maybe even good J1 if you do attack then. You basically want to make sure you have many men and transports to take DEI and malaya when you do finally attack. It helps to be able to leave a couple behind on the islands so ANZAC and UK can’t just waltz on in. Also, make sure you can send at least one carrier with planes and a battleship to Japan if the US builds up in Hawaii. Usually, by the time the US can do this, Japan can afford to spend a big chunk of it’s income on destryers to defend against the US navy. Maybe leave one destryer (or build) in Japan, so it can block any uUS advance towards Japan from Hawaii.
By this stage, you should have most of China, most of DEI (if not all - asusming a J3 attack), and have planes in Yunnan which can hit India (obviously defended with men). You wil probably end up taking India with transports and planes, but you do need to make sure you can at least match Indian production on the mainland. Also, subs and ships can make sure India doesn’t get much income (through convoy disruptions). If you have a spare $6 at any point early on, I recomend subs. You can stop income in DEI islands, and can probably have the Indians only earning $7 or less per turn two turns after you attack.
Just make sure you don’t put your transports or small navy anywhere India can take it out. If you do, they will… take it out, and it’s pretty much over for Japan.
I think you should give Japan to either the better player, or the more conservative player. I have found, until you get your head around the map and whatnot, Pacific is either a quick victory for the allies, or a medium length win for Japan. It should be clear by turn 5 who is going to win.
I would recomend the Alpha setup, because it seemed to be a bit more fun than the original setup. I have not played the reduced air force setup.
If you are the allies, keep an eye out for a UK attack on vulnerable transports. If you can smash transports, Japan is usually two steps behind it’s aims.
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I have been thinking about it quite a bit (we never got to play the game :cry:) and I think I might just go with Alpha. It seems to garner a high opinion in these forums. I understand that one should play OOB their first few games, but I wouldn’t want my cousin’s experience to be mired by one bad game.
That said, I did play one game of Pacific by myself using normal rules and It was a close victory for the Allies. Ofcourse this doesn’t prove much, but I could see the Logistical problems that encounter Japan. She must be able to do EVERYTHING and quickly. It is kinda fun. ANZAC was kinda fun too because you had so little of anything, but you still wanted to do something meaningful without attracting Japans attention. China was just grind city IMO. UK, not as fun as I thought it would be TBH; she is usually my favourite to play in the Global games.
Hopefully we could get a game going soon. I just got a new job, so I think A&A Global is not too far ahead =D
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Okay, so two nights ago we just finished our game of Pacific. We played with OOB rules and it was a victory to the Allies. I’ll try to give as many details as I can if you are all interested in reading it. I was Allies, cousin was Japan. (bare with me if the details are not so, well, detaily)
J1: Japan buys MIC and 2 trannies. Attacks fleet off of the coast of Philipines. Moves Fleet from SZ 33 (I think) down one space to attack those islands there. Starts killing China.Takes Kwangtung. Attacks Tranny on Hawaii with whole Japanese Fleet. Places MIC in area north of Kwangtung
US1: Buy CV, take back Hawaii SZ, Move planes from Philipines to Hawaii.
CH1: Take Yunnan back.
UK1: Buy CV Place one fighter and dive bomber on it. Use trannies and Battleship to start doing my NO’s
ANZAC1: Buy Tranny and Troop. Move all of my stuff to queensland in preparation for attack.
First Round analysis: I did not expect a J1 Attack. Still I think Japan made some grave errors in not attacking any of the DEI or FIC. Furthermore, he lost 2CVs at Hawaii, a big blow and never took over Philipines. He didn’t move his homeland airforce, meaning they weren’t doing anything. Perhaps as The Allies I shouldn’t have purchased those CV’s , but I think they gave me a slightly higher leverage in the South Asian Seas. Trannies might have been a better option. All infantry buys if I was expecting an attack on India. (Which never came) Overall, I think I played a lot better than he did.
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J2: Buys Battleship and trannies and troops, takes Yunnan and other northern China provinces. Takes New Britain and Attacks Philipines using Airplanes on the CV in New Britain Coupled with a landing force from Japan.
US2: Buy Bomber, tranny, troop and art (this was pretty much a standard buy for me). 1 destroyer and Cruiser. Move CV to Hawaii.
CH2: Take back Yunnan, place troops in northern provinces to draw forces to the North, away from India.
UK2: 2 inf 2 art, have whole fleet meet up at Borneo. Await possible Japanese Attack from Philipines. Move all my forces up from India to the Front Lines
ANZAC2: Buy one destroyer, move previous tranny with troop and tranny from SZ 62 to 55. Use troop from queensland with tranny to go behind enemy lines and take Caroline Islands for easy 5 IPC boost for next turn.
For Me this turn I think was a relatively quiet one. I didn’t feel to threatened. I had a massive air power on Hawaiian Islands just in case he tried to get cute with me. I felt UK’s fleet in the South Pacific was complete (1 of each ship, Fighter and Tac Bomber, and 4 inf) I lost the Philipines, but that was expected IMHO. The situation in China sucked. But Japan hadn’t placed any new boots on the continent either.
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Okay, so two nights ago we just finished our game of Pacific. We played with OOB rules and it was a victory to the Allies. I’ll try to give as many details as I can if you are all interested in reading it. I was Allies, cousin was Japan. (bare with me if the details are not so, well, detaily)
J1: Japan buys MIC and 2 trannies. Attacks fleet off of the coast of Philipines. Moves Fleet from SZ 33 (I think) down one space to attack those islands there. Starts killing China.Takes Kwangtung. Attacks Tranny on Hawaii with whole Japanese Fleet. Places MIC in area north of Kwangtung
US1: Buy CV, take back Hawaii SZ, Move planes from Philipines to Hawaii.
CH1: Take Yunnan back.
UK1: Buy CV Place one fighter and dive bomber on it. Use trannies and Battleship to start doing my NO’s
ANZAC1: Buy Tranny and Troop. Move all of my stuff to queensland in preparation for attack.
First Round analysis: I did not expect a J1 Attack. Still I think Japan made some grave errors in not attacking any of the DEI or FIC. Furthermore, he lost 2CVs at Hawaii, a big blow and never took over Philipines. He didn’t move his homeland airforce, meaning they weren’t doing anything. Perhaps as The Allies I shouldn’t have purchased those CV’s , but I think they gave me a slightly higher leverage in the South Asian Seas. Trannies might have been a better option. All infantry buys if I was expecting an attack on India. (Which never came) Overall, I think I played a lot better than he did.
The Entire Jap fleet was defeated? How was 2 BB’s and 3 CV’s defeated by one of each?
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The Entire Jap fleet was defeated? How was 2 BB’s and 3 CV’s defeated by one of each?
Well not the entire Japanese fleet, only the one stationed in Japan. The thing is that didn’t capture Hawaii, only the SZ around it. So what I did was that I sent my entire Californian Fleet That way, including my planes too. Furthermore, I didn’t scramble My Hawaiian planes when they attacked. So If, I remember correctly, I had two bombers, like 5 planes and a battleship Cruiser, destroyer and Sub attacking him. Mind you, it wasn’t easy, I lost a destroyer, a Sub 2 fighters and my Battleship was on its side, but I won.
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The Entire Jap fleet was defeated? How was 2 BB’s and 3 CV’s defeated by one of each?
Well not the entire Japanese fleet, only the one stationed in Japan. The thing is that didn’t capture Hawaii, only the SZ around it. So what I did was that I sent my entire Californian Fleet That way, including my planes too. Furthermore, I didn’t scramble My Hawaiian planes when they attacked. So If, I remember correctly, I had two bombers, like 5 planes and a battleship Cruiser, destroyer and Sub attacking him. Mind you, it wasn’t easy, I lost a destroyer, a Sub 2 fighters and my Battleship was on its side, but I won.
Yeah, if he did that, he should’ve at least brought in the carolines fleet
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J3: Buys 3 battleships (he had saved money from earlier somehow, don’t remember) Starts cracking China finaly, only down to three provinces, moves transports out of Philipines, moves from New Britain to SZ 54, planes included. Gets ready to invade India
US3: Standard Buy and 2 fighters. Move fleet from Hawaii, to Caroline Islands, move fleet from California to Hawaii. I had 4 bombers stationed in Hawaii with 3 Figs protecting them.
CH3: 1 inf in the northwest most territory. Seriously…. China Sucks…
UK3: Purchase 4 in 2 art. Move all troops to frontlines, get ready to fight for Yunnan. Fleet moves to Celebes, capture it. Fulfill my NO.
ANZAC3: Purchase 3 DD. Attack Japanese Fleet in SZ 54 with 4 figs and 1 DD. Destroy both planes, but the Capital Ships Survive.
At this point, I was a bit apprehensive. I thought as America I had expanded myself too far going into Carolinas. Furthermore, Hawaii seemed fairly unprotected due to the few fighters I had compared to the massive amount he had. Still, I think he was getting a bit scared too as I was really close to Japan’s territory right now. I was confused about what he hoped to accomplish in the Aussie waters. It seemed like he was just going for a suicide attempt or something. This I think was also the highest point for him in terms of income, 49 I believe it was.
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Yeah, if he did that, he should’ve at least brought in the carolines fleet
I agree, it would have been a much tougher fight. But personally, I don’t think he should have done that in the first place. If I wanted to threaten the US, I would have taken Midway on 1st turn, use planes from Japan, to attack Hawaiian Bomber, one plane to kill the tranny. Would have taken Philipines with fleet from carolinas and some planes from Japan. This would get rid of two out of three US bombers and 2 fighters and 1 tac bomber. This, I think could have made a difference. If that would have worked, as America, I can guarantee I would have been way more careful and apprehensive about what I did.
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Yeah, if he did that, he should’ve at least brought in the carolines fleet
I agree, it would have been a much tougher fight. But personally, I don’t think he should have done that in the first place. If I wanted to threaten the US, I would have taken Midway on 1st turn, use planes from Japan, to attack Hawaiian Bomber, one plane to kill the tranny. Would have taken Philipines with fleet from carolinas and some planes from Japan. This would get rid of two out of three US bombers and 2 fighters and 1 tac bomber. This, I think could have made a difference. If that would have worked, as America, I can guarantee I would have been way more careful and apprehensive about what I did.
Japan has no planes that can reach Hawaii on turn 1
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Japan has no planes that can reach Hawaii on turn 1
Really? I always thought you could land them on the Marshall islands (unless we are misinterpretting the rules on movement)
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Japan has no planes that can reach Hawaii on turn 1
Really? I always thought you could land them on the Marshall islands (unless we are misinterpretting the rules on movement)
Okay, which planes are you talking about that attack Hawaii and what is their movement path?
Also, you realize that Hawaii has 2 inf and a fighter as well as a bomber, right?
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Okay, which planes are you talking about that attack Hawaii and what is their movement path?
Also, you realize that Hawaii has 2 inf and a fighter as well as a bomber, right?
Well I am talking about planes from Japan Island. Their Flightpath is SZ16, SZ29, SZ26 (Attack), SZ 31, SZ32.
The reasons you stated above are why I think it would be foolhardy to attack without taking it over. I guess the point I was trying to make was that if he was going to attack Hawaii, I think he should have atleast attempted to destroy those planes, which he never did.
Ofcourse, if he has no way of making it to Hawaii then the whole point is moot :-P
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