@Brain:
Here I go again. There needs to be a Vichy rule.
I know
Any ideas on how one might work
I orig thought a Vichy rule would be cool. Then the rule book came out with all the political rules, then the Errata changed some of those, and it gets a little confusing (although it is better). We still don’t know all the political rules involving the neutrals (pro this or that). I don’t think I would support even more political rules. If the game allows the axis to take over certain tt (like FIC) that collaborated w/axis or leaves them weakly def then that’s good enough for me. I’m getting tired of extra rules, and finding out latter you’ve been playing wrong. I know its a process, and I’m glad we are a part of it. I just hope its all straighten out by spring and Europe has no (or fewer) bugs, and its an easy transition into the Global game. :-D
how one might work?
Roll a die, and measure the number of territories from the paris territory. French units in those territories immidatly convert to german at the end of the first german turn when paris has been captured. So a roll of a 1 would see Brittany and Vichy surrender. A roll of a 2 would give germany the French atlantic and Mediteranin fleets. A roll of a 3 would give them corsica, a 4 would give them morocco and algeria, a 5 would give them nothing extra, and a 6 would convert syria.
Historicaly, germany rolled a “4 or 5” on this roll.
French land units in a territory that also contains MORE other allied units than french do not covert, french naval units automaticly scuttle if MORE allied naval units are in the same sea zone.
actualy I just spawend a simpler vichy rule….
Germany can spend the french IPCs it captures during THAT place units phase, in or adjacent to any french terrirory on the europe board, even if it contains french units. Resolve combat as normal in the french turn.
actualy I just spawend a simpler vichy rule….
Germany can spend the french IPCs it captures during THAT place units phase, in or adjacent to any french terrirory on the europe board, even if it contains french units. Resolve combat as normal in the french turn.
That idea has possibilities.
Possibilities of getting a German transport into the med, or placing german units into morocco, algeria, corsica etc and taking control of them instantly.
If France surrenders (i.e. by my rules when it loses all its ICs) then all surviving French units are Vichy UNLESS they are accompanied by a greater number of Allied units, in which case they become Free French, controlled by the “French” player. Thereafter the Allies can convert VF units to FF by simply moving in a greater number of Allied units, in which case VF defect without a fight; or, if not greater in numbers, then after any subsequent combat round in which the Allies have the said numerical advantage.
The same system should apply to ALL nations. If you see one of your allies on the verge of capitulating, then send in enough units to keep their troops loyal; e.g. Germany reinforcing northern Italy after the Sicily landings, or finally occupying Vichy France after Operation Torch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Anton
The same thing, therefore, applies in reverse; i.e. Vichy France is regarded as a German/Italian ally in this case.
Yep more political rules, glad its not going to happen, just makes my head hurt.
You can’t have Vichy rules without politics.
I think my idea is very simple: units of a defeated France will always surrender to a larger force. This is pretty much what they did…
I agree. I’m all for a more realistic game. The more realistic, the more fun. The only condition is a good rulebook to explain the rules leaving the reader in no doubt what the rules are.
You know I think I like Flashman’s idea better for Vichy France.
I know Vichy is messy and complicated but it WAS messy and complicated!
French units should turn into AXIS leaning Neutrals. Vichy never declared was on Britain or US but worked with the Germans, in fact the Laval cabinet was very PRO-AXIS and ANTI-BRITISH.
Any French units in territories with other ALLIED units should remain FREE FRENCH when France falls?
I know this is a complicated issue but it would be impossible to water-down or streamline it. I think it is one of the most fascinating and complex issues of WW2.
I would like to see a decent HOUSE RULE if it is not included in the Global game.
Yes, I agree with FMG, I hope Larry changes his mind on this one before it’s too late, if it’s not too late already.
its too late, and i have been thinking about this.
The only french units on the board will likeley be in Brittany, Vichy, and Central France
The central france stack “might” be big enough that germany has to attack it Round 2. And a G1 and It1 attack on Brittany and Vichy respectively is the propper move.
The only other french units will be, is suspect, a weak mediteranian fleet, that Italy decimates, an infantry in morocco, but not algeria, and 1 inf in Tunisia. And 1 inf in Syria
The only 100% ahistorical thing that is going to happen is, the french atlantic fleet is going to be big, and survive.
There wont “be” any french inits to even turn vichy when paris falls, except for the one in morocco and one in syria.
I guess the point is moot from larrys perspective.
its too late, and i have been thinking about this.
The only french units on the board will likeley be in Brittany, Vichy, and Central France
The central france stack “might” be big enough that germany has to attack it Round 2. And a G1 and It1 attack on Brittany and Vichy respectively is the propper move.
The only other french units will be, is suspect, a weak mediteranian fleet, that Italy decimates, an infantry in morocco, but not algeria, and 1 inf in Tunisia. And 1 inf in Syria
The only 100% ahistorical thing that is going to happen is, the french atlantic fleet is going to be big, and survive.
There wont “be” any french inits to even turn vichy when paris falls, except for the one in morocco and one in syria.
I guess the point is moot from larrys perspective.
What about French Indonesia?
I doubt larry would change the dynamic in the pacific by adding units there
if there are any, there will be 1. He wont turn vichy, and japan will just kill him with overwhelming airpower.
The central france stack “might” be big enough that germany has to attack it Round 2. And a G1 and It1 attack on Brittany and Vichy respectively is the propper move.
The only 100% ahistorical thing that is going to happen is, the french atlantic fleet is going to be big, and survive.
I think that They did have a big atlantic fleet. Bigger than Germany’s anyhow. And I read somewhere that Germany should be able to take Central France on round one if they devote enough, but that if they tried to shirk from all out, France might have a chance of surviving one round. I would think this would be Germany devastating if they survive to build any units.
I doubt larry would change the dynamic in the pacific by adding units there
if there are any, there will be 1. He wont turn vichy, and japan will just kill him with overwhelming airpower.
We shall see. Still there were French troops there and that should be reflected somehow.
Operation Torch will not be an option without Vichy France. :cry:
French Indonesia?
Is that the place the Yanks got their butts kicked?
You’re ignoring sub-Saharan Africa; there were major campaigns to get Vichy out of Senegal (Dakar) and Madagascar, since there was a major base at Dakar, and potential Japanese sub bases in Madagascar. Syria can be vital as a staging post into the Caucasus and Iran.
