War on Drugs

@Yanny:

Yeah, personally I think the war on Drugs is ineffective, and really isn’t our business.

Isn’t any of our business?? You’re right, when someone sniffs the crack, then goes on a shooting rampage and kills my family….that’s absolutely none of my business… :evil:

If the American people are willing to pay for (and they are willing to pay for) laws and enforcement to keep druggies away from their children, why even consider legalizing it? This country runs on the majority vote and that’s exactly how laws banning drugs are put into play. So obviously, more people than not think that drugs are worth fighting against.

Further, don’t try to justify legalizing drugs because alcohol is legal. Legalizing another harmful substance is going to do absolutely nothing to solve the crisis that taking place as we speak.

See Horten’s graph of alcohol consumption during prohibition, it actually when up!

As for drug legalization, legalization does not mean approval. America spends at least $20 billion a year to fight a losing battle against drugs. (Research by William F. Buckley places America’s direct and indirect costs of this “war” at more than $200 billion a year.) Experts say that worldwide, the annual drug trade may be as high as $500 billion! “Just say no” ain’t gonna stop that. The drug trade provides an economic incentive for children and teens to drop out of school and earn fast money. It accounts for 50 percent of all street crimes and perhaps 30 percent of the prison population. Tax drugs, and use the money for drug treatment and additional police protection. Drug legalization would free up prison spaces, vacancies that could be used to lock up violent criminals. What about the harm to society? Drug abuse would have to increase well over fivefold to match the deaths caused by cigarette smoking (allegedly 400,000 a year).

Marijuana, the primary focus of the drug war, drains half of its resources and tying up about a third of the criminal justice system. An 80% increase in marijuana arrests since 1993 has led to 700,000 annual arrests, about 88% for possession, more than the number of arrests for murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault combined. I think those law enforcement and criminal justice should be more adapt to capturing criminals, murderers, and other hoodlums that prosecuting drug users, simply arrested for pocession in the privacy of their own home.

First, I am not really a conservative. In political tests I ussually test as extremely center. How ever that is a misnomer, my beliefs vary WIDELY to different camps based upon the issue. In a political test that kind of thing cancels it self out.

To pull a Moses, I am a “pragmatic idealist”

Second, Conservatives tend to support economic freedoms and personal limitations.

Ussually consevatives support

-Gun ownership
-Free trade
-Less business limitations
-less social programs
-drug laws
-anti-prostitution laws
-anti-abortion laws

As I understand it, Moses, you are for a Communist system, and for the legalization of prostitution and drugs, and for abortion, which is against all the attributes I listed.

Ha, that’s it? :roll:

How about adding cloning, affirmative action, military, education, environment, social security, religion, regulation, privatization, internet and technology, health, science, welfare reform, capital punishment, racial profiling, the media, censorship, IRS, gay rights, Israel/Palestine, budget/tax, child support, law enforcement, energy plan, homeland defense, terrorism, missile defense, humanitarian aid, culture, family, vouchers, term limits, government reform, euthanasia, nuclear arms, foreign aid, civil rights, immigration, personal freedom, constitution, personal responsibility, moral values, arts funding, federalism, economic growth, transportation, and whatever else from the top of my head to the list?

don’t forget aliens.

HFW - you forgot to mention aliens!

also i think that they should teach ethics rather than morality. I think you and i have different morals to begin with, but we might have some consensus on certain ethical views. . . .

Cloning?

For. (haha, we can debate some more Horten :wink:)

affirmative action?

Against (though, Yes, for certain circumstances. Remember our Racial Profiling post?)

military?

also agree. Also against the draft (unless under dire consequences in a war, which hasn’t happen to America for a long, long time [Civil War]), but for more benefits and payroll for those who do enlist in the military (it’s a great life experience)

education?

For vouchers for now, though willing to change if you can convince otherwise :)

environment?

Also agree. More for conservation though instead of preservation (big difference)

social security?

Also agree. Do believe in social security, though not in the way the government exercises it (the cost are unbearable)

religion?

Wholeheartedly agree. Though the morals of religions like Satanism shouldn’t be taught. :wink:

regulation?

Agree. At least under present capitalist conditions

privatization?

Keep this secret for now :roll:

internet and technology?

Speaking as in censorship for internet. Technology is a very board field though

term limits?

Actually I’m against (though no unlimited term limits). Reason being is that it takes time to learn and get the feel of the position (years in most cases) before you get adept to knowing how to work things smoothly (this is a big problem in LA)

government reform?

For.

health, science?

Good one :wink:

welfare reform?

Actually, I’m for given present conditions (ie stricter regulations and less cracks)

capital punishment?

You know it.

racial profiling?

For in some cases.

the media?

That would seem the problem, wouldn’t it? Again, this relates to censorship

gay rights?

Gay rights as in terms of marriages and adopting kids. In many states it’s illegal. For parades actually (no orgies though :P) since ethnicities are allowed to have their “parades” (ex. Chinese New Year, Martin Luther King Jr.’s B-Day)

Israel/Palestine?

for independent state, though on a no terrorism (or at minimum) referendum

budget/tax?

balanced budget, though over time

child support?

I can agree. There should be some change over this “mother knows best” policy

law enforcement?

Hell no! We need the Gestapo back! :wink:

energy plan?

For, though Clinton did scew up

homeland defense?

For, but limited of course like you said

terrorism?

I agree. Though it has to more than just simple “threatening”

missile defense?

Agree.

humanitarian aid?

Always and forever :o

culture, family?

Speaking as in family values

euthanasia?

Pro, though limited again. In Netherlands (unsure if correct country), some people are “killed” just for old age.

nuclear arms?

Arms limitations, though that’s about all we can do for now

immigration?

Against rights illegal immigrates (but execution, you crazy!). Unsure what you mean “countries across the ocean.”

arts funding?

Arts are always the first thing to go :x

buffaloes?

You know it :D

Just wondering, Horten, are you conservative, 'cause we do agree on a lot of issues? Any others you want to add to list?

BTW: Just for CC, Aliens do exist! Ain’t no “weather balloon.” :roll:

Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc. A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative. What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?
Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!

I will, for once, agree with YB about the conservative issue. A communist, even more in the US, cannot be very conservative… in russia there is conservative communism and i can understand but in the US i find it more curious. Sure “Conservative” is not equal to “Right-wing”, but here we are speaking of an ideology (communism) very different from the current system you live in… in this context, how can you be conservative ?

Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc. A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative. What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?
Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!

Leftist, anyway here in France, are not for Gay Rights & Clonings. Chirac (The right, even if he is more Leftish than the Democrat) AND Jospin (Left) were against the right from Gay couple to adopt children as long as it was not proven that it was not a bad thing for the children (for now it seem it is not a good thing).

You are making a big generalisation YB about Left & Right. “Left” is first and primarily an economic principle, same thing for “Right”, the ideology behind these principle are not the same from country to country.

@FinsterniS:

I will, for once, agree with YB

I am pretty sure that this is one of the signs of the apocalypse :)

Finsternis, I am refering to American politics. Conservatives are right leaning, but more moderate than that Nazi guy in Denmark. They believe in an open economy, but in right and wrong being legislated. It is the side of the well off, those who do not benefit from social programs, who do not more immigrants, etc.

“Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc.”

Nah, if this were true, I would be a Democrat (and God wishes that’ll never happen). Also, I’m not sure I stated my entire positions on what was mentioned above and this has to be taken in account for. Remember, leftist and conservative is not totally black and white. There are almost always shades of gray. For instance, Gay rights, I do not think that they [gay couples] should have “more” rights than those of ordinary couples.

“A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative”

Same as how a couple of leftist opinions does not make me leftist. But to be fair, why don’t you count up all the “leftist” points and compare them with all the “rightist” points. I’m sure the answer will be revealed when this happens.

“What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?”

Notice this is where the “radical” conservative part fits in (in accordance with capitalism). Actually a lot of Republicans (“New Guard” at least) are for drug legalization and prostitution. Remember, legalization does not mean approval. I may not “approve” of alcohol because of its side effects, but I don’t think that we should prohibit it. This is big problem with the Republican “Old Guard” (which may be what you’re thinking about), is that they turn a blind eye to what is happening in the real world.

“Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!”

For the moment, Conservatives do hold the slim majorities in Washington. However, this will change soon. A key problem with the Republican is their inability to change (a fallacy of being conservative) with the times. The Republican Primaries for the governorship of California being a prime example.

“will, for once, agree with YB about the conservative issue.”

Ha, at least I got you to agree on something. Behold the glory!

“i find it more curious”

perhaps, as time moves on, you’ll unravel more of the “true” plot.

“Leftist, anyway here in France, are not for Gay Rights & Clonings. Chirac (The right, even if he is more Leftish than the Democrat) AND Jospin (Left) were against the right from Gay couple to adopt children as long as it was not proven that it was not a bad thing for the children (for now it seem it is not a good thing).”

Well, I guess more studies will have to be conduct before we’ll know the “true answer.” However, I will say (and this is entirely an opinion – without looking at the stats) that a gay couple would probably have a better chance of raising a child than that of a single parent.

“BTW cloning will destroy mankind. i wrote a short story about it, i’ll post it if you are interested in reading.”

Oh Really? Is it anything like Gattaca or The Boys from Brazil?

“Why do i have to be christian holy to be conservative. no one has ever came up with any good reasons why gays can’t have children besides “the other kids make fun of them.” fun is good!”

Well, I was never a “true” Christian and I’m conservative. Nor have been my parents. But (stereotypical as it seems) the truth is that most Republicans are WASPs. Also, I’m not sure what’s wrong with gay parenting. People say that there’s a motherly affection that can only come from a women, but I seem to find this false. Another problem would be kids making fun of other kids that have only a single parent, a parent “mentally unstable,” or parents that have been divorced. Does that mean we should outlaw divorce and single parenting?

““overseas” i do not believe in full open immigration for countries where terrorism is threatening to us (not just arab countries.) We need intensive background checks, but in my opinion arabs are some of our best americans. they are very knowledgeable and work very hard.”

Immigration is a very touchy subject because if you come off too hard people think you’re a “racist” (much like racial profiling). Yet something has to be done about immigration. I vehemently oppose closing it (some “ultra-conservatives” forget that immigration is one of the fundamental aspects that makes America great), but more effective screening is needed like you said.

The first thing i am going to say is that I am RACIST! :) okay well my opinion on the Drug Issue, is this. Drugs are a threat to our society and purity and must not be legalized. in fact, Drugs must be wiped out of our culture and soiciety and the only way to do that is with FEAR. if u make the punishment for dealing drugs Execution with out trial, no body is going to do it, or almost nobody. and if there are no dealers then there will be less drugs and the issue will reduce in size. also i think the USA should get all Barbara Streisand on Canada cus if drugs are legalized in Canada it will increas our problems here. and i think the USA should openly admit to sending troops to south amercia and stop trying to hide it and jsut send every F***ing thing down there to rid of the feilds and sellers. i beleive that alchohol is bad and is a nother menace in our society. i think we should take a much less radical aproach to then my DRUG plan. but still do more then we are doing now. Tabacco, we should jsut march in with the Marines and destroy the counties Leadership. okay now my veiws on Immagration. i beleive we should crack down on this like a NAZI on JEW. if we find ILegal immigrants in this country we should deport them, no questions asked. i beleive in Racial Profiling cus if u try to be Politicaly correct all the time its not gonna work out. i think if people go on welfare they should be Sterylized this way they wont infect the earth with there scum. this will also help make USA a more White country. :) i think Cloning is a great idea. cloning cows and animals for food will help save many citizens of this country from starvation. i think the idea of SUING is the Stupidest thing on earth. i beleive in Helath Care. i think the gov should get more involved with Youth programs. kinda like the HJ in NAzi Germany. Freedom of Relgeon is okay in my book, but religeon should not control the State. Gays and Lesbianbs are okay as long as they dont do anymore Gay pride paraids. i think Rap and other Genre of music and Video should be censored on issues like Drugs Rape and degenerating women or ANTI Gov. i beleive that Law Enforce ment should have a hell of allot more rights. i think we should icrease the standard tax but take away other pointless taxes. if u are Homless or unemployed for over 4 months u are automaticly drafted into the Army. so thats about all i have to say about that. :) and um Axis and Allies RULES! and may all of u have a great day i might be registering an acount later this month so ill talk to u then and i hope that the ANTI Druggies win this debate :)

and for the tabacco thing i meant Companies not Counties :)

Key advice Guest, take the time to go over what you write. Nobody is forcing you to hurry up on what you have to say. Be sure to skip a line whenever you move into a new subject, so everything can be easily kept track of. I was lost more than once in trying to decipher what you had to say.

sry about that mate im just a shity tyeper :( and im constantly talkin back and fourth and i was eating aswell so i naturally did a bad job :)

please,
anything but Barbara Streisand.
We can handle your wussy little infantry, but BS would just be inhumane.

I think the US policing the world is a dangerous concept. I am all for RCMP helping “legitimate” governments provide appropriate training for their police forces etc., but the idea of an US based military unit invading foreign sovereignties over its drug policies is problematic (i.e. we’re well past the thin edge of the wedge here).
I am anti-drug to some degree, but i am also anti-criminalizing non-criminals.
i have more to respond to guess, but the pool is calling me right now.