maybe Americans have more reason for doing cocaine :D
Marijuana is really bad for you. One joint is like smoking a pack of cigarettes. A lot of car accidents are caused by Marijuana. Marijuana causes cancer, heart disease, and suppresses the Immune system. It causes long and short term memory loss. It seriously deprivates the user’s ability to think and reason. It ussually has other drugs/substances mixed into it. I can go get my little sheet if you don’t trust me and want the bibliography. I’m just too lazy right now to ruffle through my bag.
And Moses, why the hell do you call yourself a conservative? YOu support no conservative ideas. If your clubmates found out your true beliefs they would probably excommunicate you. You could probably found the anti-right/anti-republican/anti-conservative party.
you’re wrong!!! here’s what i am talking about!
I know cigarettes are less dangerous depending on most situations compared with marijuana, but certainly not compared to alcohol, which is legal. “Indulgence in [Cannabis] marijuana, unlike alcohol, rarely bring the habitué into a state of extreme intoxication where he loses entire control over himself. As a rule, those who indulge habitually can carry on their ordinary vocations for long periods and do not become a burden to society or even a nuisance." - U.N. Bulletin on Narcotics
“And Moses, why the hell do you call yourself a conservative? YOu support no conservative ideas. If your clubmates found out your true beliefs they would probably excommunicate you. You could probably found the anti-right/anti-republican/anti-conservative party.”
Give me a list of your “conservative ideas,” I’m interested in seeing them. Tell me your definition of “Conservative.” Simply because I support some leftist policies does that make me entirely non-conservative. Also by saying I support no conservative ideas is a broad generalization. Have you been around me long enough, to know all my beliefs and say none of them are conservative? Go ahead and answer this for me, seeing as you “seem” to know all my “non-conservative” ideas.
Let’s say a Conservative Republican was centered around six policies: 1) Less Crime 2) More Candy for All 3) Bush your teeth 4) Star Wars is good movie 5) Apple Pie is Yummy 6) It’s okay to murder
If conservatives believed murdering is right, and I believed otherwise, does that simply make me entirely non-conservative even though I answered, “yes” to the previous 5 policies? Of course you would like to think so, since you know every thing there is to know about me.
I like Candy :D
Yeah, I do too. :roll: But to say I am simply a Conservative because I choose to believe in one of their doctrines is a serious misjudgment. It is also another misjudgment to say that simply because I don’t believe candy is good, it makes me a non-Conservative (in a Republican sense, not as ‘conservative’ [lower cased] meaning no change).
You can use a vaporizer on pot, but can you use it on tobacco products?
Yeah, personally I think the war on Drugs is ineffective, and really isn’t our business.
Isn’t any of our business?? You’re right, when someone sniffs the crack, then goes on a shooting rampage and kills my family….that’s absolutely none of my business… :evil:
If the American people are willing to pay for (and they are willing to pay for) laws and enforcement to keep druggies away from their children, why even consider legalizing it? This country runs on the majority vote and that’s exactly how laws banning drugs are put into play. So obviously, more people than not think that drugs are worth fighting against.
Further, don’t try to justify legalizing drugs because alcohol is legal. Legalizing another harmful substance is going to do absolutely nothing to solve the crisis that taking place as we speak.
See Horten’s graph of alcohol consumption during prohibition, it actually when up!
As for drug legalization, legalization does not mean approval. America spends at least $20 billion a year to fight a losing battle against drugs. (Research by William F. Buckley places America’s direct and indirect costs of this “war” at more than $200 billion a year.) Experts say that worldwide, the annual drug trade may be as high as $500 billion! “Just say no” ain’t gonna stop that. The drug trade provides an economic incentive for children and teens to drop out of school and earn fast money. It accounts for 50 percent of all street crimes and perhaps 30 percent of the prison population. Tax drugs, and use the money for drug treatment and additional police protection. Drug legalization would free up prison spaces, vacancies that could be used to lock up violent criminals. What about the harm to society? Drug abuse would have to increase well over fivefold to match the deaths caused by cigarette smoking (allegedly 400,000 a year).
Marijuana, the primary focus of the drug war, drains half of its resources and tying up about a third of the criminal justice system. An 80% increase in marijuana arrests since 1993 has led to 700,000 annual arrests, about 88% for possession, more than the number of arrests for murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault combined. I think those law enforcement and criminal justice should be more adapt to capturing criminals, murderers, and other hoodlums that prosecuting drug users, simply arrested for pocession in the privacy of their own home.
First, I am not really a conservative. In political tests I ussually test as extremely center. How ever that is a misnomer, my beliefs vary WIDELY to different camps based upon the issue. In a political test that kind of thing cancels it self out.
To pull a Moses, I am a “pragmatic idealist”
Second, Conservatives tend to support economic freedoms and personal limitations.
Ussually consevatives support
-Gun ownership
-Free trade
-Less business limitations
-less social programs
-drug laws
-anti-prostitution laws
-anti-abortion laws
As I understand it, Moses, you are for a Communist system, and for the legalization of prostitution and drugs, and for abortion, which is against all the attributes I listed.
Ha, that’s it? :roll:
How about adding cloning, affirmative action, military, education, environment, social security, religion, regulation, privatization, internet and technology, health, science, welfare reform, capital punishment, racial profiling, the media, censorship, IRS, gay rights, Israel/Palestine, budget/tax, child support, law enforcement, energy plan, homeland defense, terrorism, missile defense, humanitarian aid, culture, family, vouchers, term limits, government reform, euthanasia, nuclear arms, foreign aid, civil rights, immigration, personal freedom, constitution, personal responsibility, moral values, arts funding, federalism, economic growth, transportation, and whatever else from the top of my head to the list?
don’t forget aliens.
“How about adding cloning,”
against. too many humans and man shouldn’t be immortal.
“affirmative action”
Against. It is racist of and one who benefits and “malefits.”
," military,"
Downsize world involvement in stationing troops, but increase spending in weapons development. In other words only bring money where it is absolutely necessary (Kuwait, Egypt, Israel…), not Korea and Europe.
“education,”
I’m against vouchers, but i am for phasiong in corperate ownership.
“environment”
I was pro IM240 and OBD3, and I believe huge steps in protecting the environment should be taken.
, “social security”
Against. If the government takes money out of your paycheck, they should put it in the bank, not give less back to you when you get older.
“, religion”
Religion is usually good. Though it is morality, not religion that should be taught.
, “regulation”
Yes, there should be standards and regulations, though I don’t believe the government should control every aspect of business.
“, privatization,”
pro for schools, libraries…public things.
“internet and technology”
For…how can you be against it ???
," health, science,"
Against state health care because it ruins quality, and against science. The world is flat damn it.
" welfare reform,"
I dislike welfare…not because what it does, but the adverse effect on society. People shouldn’t depend on “the state” for their livelyhood.
“capital punishment,”
Kill the murderers, rapist, old men, and babies. Euthanasia and abortion too!
“racial profiling,”
For it when it comes down to certain situations like airports and incresed crime in a certain neighborhood. (look at nyc!)
“the media”
The media is mostly liberal, but what are you going to do?
“censorship”
Against, besides i believe that the army should be able to use deceipt against our enemies by not giving every detail to the media.
, “IRS”
Income tax must go. we need customs duties up the ass!
, "gay rights, "
How is this even up for discussion. They should have no more, no less. This means they shouldn’t have those parades that are nothing more than gay orgies. Straight people can’t do that.
“Israel/Palestine,”
Talking realistically, a palestinian state probably wouldn’t last or do any good, but i am against the settlements.
“budget/tax”
customs duties.
, “child support,”
Way too corrupt. A man (at times women) is screwed for life with this, and he never gets the kid. I’m lucky to live with my father after some extreme measures.
“law enforcement,”
against. we need anarchy.
“energy plan”
We need to invest in renewable resources, but everything clinton and the states have done thus far is absolute crap.
," homeland defense,"
Wire tapping and things of the sort should be loosened a bit…
" terrorism, "
Take out our enemies if they are threatening. the method we do so? PEace or diplomacy, or a detante? It matters what the situation is.
“missile defense”,
delay it ten years.
" humanitarian aid,"
end it. no joke.
“culture, family,”
Culture and the family prevents man from pure unification with all of it’s brethern. both must be eliminated for true peace. But that won’t happen.
" vouchers"
against.
, “term limits”
need’em.
,“government reform”
yes, but why would the government reform itself?
“euthanasia,”
pro.
“nuclear arms,”
save a lot of lives, but some nations shouldn’t be allowed to acquire them. If they do, then oh well, unless we can do something about it.
“civil rights,”
What more now? What isn’t covered?
“immigration”
open immigration for mexico and other south american countries, but not for countries accross the ocean until there is a cooling of tensions. if an illegal immigrant is convicted of a crime (like robbery or murder) they should be executed. no one should come to thisw country to commit crime. get citizenship first.
, "arts funding, "
most art ios destructive to the mind nowerdays. It does not need public funding.
“buffaloes”
they’re great!
HFW - you forgot to mention aliens!
also i think that they should teach ethics rather than morality. I think you and i have different morals to begin with, but we might have some consensus on certain ethical views. . . .
Cloning?
For. (haha, we can debate some more Horten :wink:)
affirmative action?
Against (though, Yes, for certain circumstances. Remember our Racial Profiling post?)
military?
also agree. Also against the draft (unless under dire consequences in a war, which hasn’t happen to America for a long, long time [Civil War]), but for more benefits and payroll for those who do enlist in the military (it’s a great life experience)
education?
For vouchers for now, though willing to change if you can convince otherwise :)
environment?
Also agree. More for conservation though instead of preservation (big difference)
social security?
Also agree. Do believe in social security, though not in the way the government exercises it (the cost are unbearable)
religion?
Wholeheartedly agree. Though the morals of religions like Satanism shouldn’t be taught. :wink:
regulation?
Agree. At least under present capitalist conditions
privatization?
Keep this secret for now :roll:
internet and technology?
Speaking as in censorship for internet. Technology is a very board field though
term limits?
Actually I’m against (though no unlimited term limits). Reason being is that it takes time to learn and get the feel of the position (years in most cases) before you get adept to knowing how to work things smoothly (this is a big problem in LA)
government reform?
For.
health, science?
Good one :wink:
welfare reform?
Actually, I’m for given present conditions (ie stricter regulations and less cracks)
capital punishment?
You know it.
racial profiling?
For in some cases.
the media?
That would seem the problem, wouldn’t it? Again, this relates to censorship
gay rights?
Gay rights as in terms of marriages and adopting kids. In many states it’s illegal. For parades actually (no orgies though :P) since ethnicities are allowed to have their “parades” (ex. Chinese New Year, Martin Luther King Jr.’s B-Day)
Israel/Palestine?
for independent state, though on a no terrorism (or at minimum) referendum
budget/tax?
balanced budget, though over time
child support?
I can agree. There should be some change over this “mother knows best” policy
law enforcement?
Hell no! We need the Gestapo back! :wink:
energy plan?
For, though Clinton did scew up
homeland defense?
For, but limited of course like you said
terrorism?
I agree. Though it has to more than just simple “threatening”
missile defense?
Agree.
humanitarian aid?
Always and forever :o
culture, family?
Speaking as in family values
euthanasia?
Pro, though limited again. In Netherlands (unsure if correct country), some people are “killed” just for old age.
nuclear arms?
Arms limitations, though that’s about all we can do for now
immigration?
Against rights illegal immigrates (but execution, you crazy!). Unsure what you mean “countries across the ocean.”
arts funding?
Arts are always the first thing to go :x
buffaloes?
You know it :D
Just wondering, Horten, are you conservative, 'cause we do agree on a lot of issues? Any others you want to add to list?
BTW: Just for CC, Aliens do exist! Ain’t no “weather balloon.” :roll:
Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc. A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative. What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?
Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!
I will, for once, agree with YB about the conservative issue. A communist, even more in the US, cannot be very conservative… in russia there is conservative communism and i can understand but in the US i find it more curious. Sure “Conservative” is not equal to “Right-wing”, but here we are speaking of an ideology (communism) very different from the current system you live in… in this context, how can you be conservative ?
Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc. A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative. What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?
Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!
Leftist, anyway here in France, are not for Gay Rights & Clonings. Chirac (The right, even if he is more Leftish than the Democrat) AND Jospin (Left) were against the right from Gay couple to adopt children as long as it was not proven that it was not a bad thing for the children (for now it seem it is not a good thing).
You are making a big generalisation YB about Left & Right. “Left” is first and primarily an economic principle, same thing for “Right”, the ideology behind these principle are not the same from country to country.
I will, for once, agree with YB
I am pretty sure that this is one of the signs of the apocalypse :)
Finsternis, I am refering to American politics. Conservatives are right leaning, but more moderate than that Nazi guy in Denmark. They believe in an open economy, but in right and wrong being legislated. It is the side of the well off, those who do not benefit from social programs, who do not more immigrants, etc.
“Moses, you are leftist. Leftists are for Gay Rights, Tariffs, Cloning, Abortion, Euthanasia, Socialism/Communism, etc.”
Nah, if this were true, I would be a Democrat (and God wishes that’ll never happen). Also, I’m not sure I stated my entire positions on what was mentioned above and this has to be taken in account for. Remember, leftist and conservative is not totally black and white. There are almost always shades of gray. For instance, Gay rights, I do not think that they [gay couples] should have “more” rights than those of ordinary couples.
“A couple of conservative opinions does not make you conservative”
Same as how a couple of leftist opinions does not make me leftist. But to be fair, why don’t you count up all the “leftist” points and compare them with all the “rightist” points. I’m sure the answer will be revealed when this happens.
“What Republican hates capitalism? Or is for legalizing drugs and prostitution?”
Notice this is where the “radical” conservative part fits in (in accordance with capitalism). Actually a lot of Republicans (“New Guard” at least) are for drug legalization and prostitution. Remember, legalization does not mean approval. I may not “approve” of alcohol because of its side effects, but I don’t think that we should prohibit it. This is big problem with the Republican “Old Guard” (which may be what you’re thinking about), is that they turn a blind eye to what is happening in the real world.
“Why do you think they are not already legalized? Conservatives!”
For the moment, Conservatives do hold the slim majorities in Washington. However, this will change soon. A key problem with the Republican is their inability to change (a fallacy of being conservative) with the times. The Republican Primaries for the governorship of California being a prime example.
“will, for once, agree with YB about the conservative issue.”
Ha, at least I got you to agree on something. Behold the glory!
“i find it more curious”
perhaps, as time moves on, you’ll unravel more of the “true” plot.
“Leftist, anyway here in France, are not for Gay Rights & Clonings. Chirac (The right, even if he is more Leftish than the Democrat) AND Jospin (Left) were against the right from Gay couple to adopt children as long as it was not proven that it was not a bad thing for the children (for now it seem it is not a good thing).”
Well, I guess more studies will have to be conduct before we’ll know the “true answer.” However, I will say (and this is entirely an opinion – without looking at the stats) that a gay couple would probably have a better chance of raising a child than that of a single parent.
@cystic:
HFW - you forgot to mention aliens!
also i think that they should teach ethics rather than morality. I think you and i have different morals to begin with, but we might have some consensus on certain ethical views. . . .
ok…lets come up with a list ;)
