India crush, how to stop

If Japan has put that many resources into taking India, China would probably still be fairly alive-ish. If the US took TRUK, they could use that to send transports to China in one turn and blitz a bunch of territorites, assuming you brought tanks, behind the majority of the Japanese forces. This could be a huge pain for Japan because China can now build on either side of the Japanes forces and take back even more territory. If we’re still thinking in terms of a US “conveyer belt” to the DEI, this wouldn’t even hamper that strategy too much. The US fleet at TRUK can hit every island except Sumatra and ANZAC could do transport work to actually take the islands. I’m wondering whether this would be effective in diverting the IJN if the US sent their whole TRUK fleet to China instead of just transports. Right now I’m thinking not…

Oh, by the way, I’ve only played 4 games of Pacific so someone please tell me why I’m wrong before I do this for real and get my butt handed to me.  :-D

I think that’s a fair assesment, but, overall it’s probably a better position for Japan if India is conquered.

On my first turn with the UK, I always purchase an additional AA and move the existing one into Burma. That means 3 AA’s Japan’s planes must fly through to attempt this. That fear alone is a heavy deterrent.

@Xayd74:

On my first turn with the UK, I always purchase an additional AA and move the existing one into Burma. That means 3 AA’s Japan’s planes must fly through to attempt this. That fear alone is a heavy deterrent.

Not sure if you are saying that you put aa guns in the flight path of japanese air so that they get to shoot at them as they fly over.  If you are that is wrong.  Unlike classic AA planes can fly over territories with aa guns with no penalty.  they only get shot at when they are attacking a territory with an aa gun.

Also not sure how you get to three anyway.  If you SBR a territory the aa gun doesnt shoot at the planes.  the factory aa gun shoots but thats it.  the actual aa gun only participates in actual combat.

@ksmckay:

@Xayd74:

On my first turn with the UK, I always purchase an additional AA and move the existing one into Burma. That means 3 AA’s Japan’s planes must fly through to attempt this. That fear alone is a heavy deterrent.

Not sure if you are saying that you put aa guns in the flight path of japanese air so that they get to shoot at them as they fly over.  If you are that is wrong.  Unlike classic AA planes can fly over territories with aa guns with no penalty.  they only get shot at when they are attacking a territory with an aa gun.

Also not sure how you get to three anyway.  If you SBR a territory the aa gun doesnt shoot at the planes.  the factory aa gun shoots but thats it.  the actual aa gun only participates in actual combat.

He’s saying 3 assuming the planes fly back over Bur in NCM.  But again, it doesn’t happen according to OOB rules.

What is TRUK?

Caroline Islands. It was Japans main base in the Carolines in WW II.

In my last game, I played Japan and did a different variation of the India push. On the first and second turns I built transports, infantry and artillery. On the first two turns I took Indo-China and as many Chinese territories as possible all with a mind to shift forces south towards India.  On turn 3, I unleashed the Japanese hordes capturing Kwangtung, the Philippines, Borneo, Celebes, Java, Sumatra, Malaya and Shan State. The Allies did the best they could to preserve their forces by reteating and staying out of my way.  By turn 4, India was isolated and reduced to an economy of 4. On turn 5 India fell to a wave of Japanese land units that took the Burma Road from China, transports loaded with infantry and artillery from the early builds and the massive air force.  The US could not breach either the Japan or Caroline Island air bases by turn 5 and the Anzacs were cowering in Australia. As we sat back and analyzed the game and what the Allies could have done differently, we could not come up with anything.  At the end of turn 5, India was crushed and Japan had the military and economic advantage over the Allies.  :? :?

We haven’t tried the J1 attack yet, but the last couple of games saw Japan buying 2 x transports on the first turn + 1 minor complex.

The first game wound up being a J2 attack, and China got steam rolled in a couple turns, then India went bye-bye.

The second game wound up a J3 attack, at which point China was down to just two infantry. India enjoyed an extra turn of infantry building, then got crushed under a tidal wave of Japanese units.

We’ve been fooling around with using the British CA & DD to screen off Java and Sumatra (we call the “lower block”), and the British BB and the US DD to screen off the Philippines from the 2 transports in Japan on J2 (we’re calling this move the “upper block”. The Brit BB goes to the SZ with Guam, and the US DD blocks the adjacent SZ between Guam & Asia. I don’t have the SZ numbers handy at the moment). The two blocking moves together can present the Japanese with some interesting choices on J2. To be honest, this is the first and only situation we’ve seen that causes the Japanese player to consider a J3 attack.

The minor complex going into Asia on J1, even with it’s 3 unit restriction, has been huge in the games we’ve played. Just when we thought that the Allies were back into the game on an even level, this move tipped the scales right back to Japan’s favor.

I know it sounds crazy, but after our last crushing Japanese win in which India again fell, I was looking at the board and trying to think of some way to threaten Japan more directly. I thought maybe an American minor IC (which could go to a major one later), along with a naval base in Alaska might do the trick?

Especially if the Japanese attack on J1, the US could put both down by US2. The Japanese fleet would be at the other end of the gameboard…ah, just a thought.

If Japan is going for India as fast as possible then the ANZAC needs to ferry fighters as soon as possible to provide some high rolling defence.  I think the US should try to pressure the island of Japan itself and throw everything you have at it.  Its an idea and it could force Japan to build more things there just to try to ward you off.  Basically you could fake out Japan then land on mainland Asia.  Being extremely aggressive with the US and not being afraid to lose things is what I found worked against Japan in both my allies wins.  Granted I was playing against people who are not as good as me, it came down to buying the correct units and playing smartly, taking things back from Japan and giving her more options to consider instead of just all or nothing at India.  ANZAC needs to try to get both bonuses to get themselves faster in the game which some people probably don’t even try to do.  Just have to harass and pick off units where ever possible with the allies, all the while pushing as fast and as hard as you can.

I havent tried this so take it with a grain of salt:

The key to fending off the India Crush, I think, is the ANZAC fighters.  India should not stand on its own, and for it to survive this all-out attack the Allies (capital A) need to actually work as allies (lowercase A).  Thus, how about moving 3 or 4 of the ANZAC fighters to India as soon as it is clear the Japanese are going all-out against India?  This would need the Allies to hold on to Malaya, but if they can do so, its not hard to start ferrying fighters over to India by Allies Turn 2 and fully reinforced by Allies Turn 3.  Now, in my games, Malaya hasn’t always been held, but it does require a concerted effort by the Japanese to take it… and if there are 3+ fighters plus the staring INF sitting there, its a tough nut to crack.

Now, of course the ANZAC player wont want to vacate Australia until its clear that Japan is going all-out for India - so an early relocation of fighter assets to NT or W Australia would be appropriate – with the intention of getting them to Malaya as soon as reasonably possible.  Though inconvenient, Malaya does offer the ability for those fighters to relocate back to Australia for whatever reason.

So, without much work and depending on the builds, India could have 10+ INF and 6+ fighters on point when the India crush occurs.  Thats a lot of dice to roll.  Its no guarantee to hold off the Japanese, but it does but India in a position that if it falls, the Japanese are going to have to pay a dear, dear price.

Agree that Anzac fighters are key to the British defense of India if Japan goes all out for Calcutta. Staging area may be important. Anzac fighters may have to stay land in Java, Sumatra, or Malaya. Preferably a location where there are at least 2 infantry to absorb losses. One alternative for the Anzac player is to build an airbase in Western Australia(Perth). Burma is only five moves away, alleviating the need for a risky stage in SE Asia.

The US fighters/TACs in Hawaii can land in the Solomon Islands if there is a J1 attack. From there, they can skip to Burma as well to shore up defenses.

@elque:

One alternative for the Anzac player is to build an airbase in Western Australia(Perth). Burma is only five moves away, alleviating the need for a risky stage in SE Asia.

ANZAC doesn’t have the cash from the outset to build an airbase.  If it did have the income, then yeah, it would be a great idea… but until it hits one of those NOs - an airbase is pretty much out of the question.  That means staging in a central location is even more important.

ANZAC has to wait until R2 for the airbase in WAUS so that their fighters can help defend India by R3. It’s safer then moving then moving the FIG to Malaya (Japan can wipe them out if it wants to), and they’re getting there at the same time. Move ANZAC’s 4 FIG to Queensland R1 and that way they’re in position to either defend the Caroline Islands after a US attack or shift to Calcutta.

Take Korea with the US.
Build a Major IC there.
Blockade Japan, retake some mainland.
India crush will stop.

@Make_It_Round:

Take Korea with the US. 
Build a Major IC there.
Blockade Japan, retake some mainland.
India crush will stop.

Take Korea with the US                        -  US1 at best, likely US3
Build a Major IC there.                          -  US2
Blockade Japan, retake some mainland.    -  US3
India crush will stop.                            -  India Crush already happened

Maybe you don’t get it.

India crush doesn’t matter anymore if you’re economically strangling the Japanese home islands and have a US major IC on the mainland…

@Make_It_Round:

Take Korea with the US.
Build a Major IC there.
Blockade Japan, retake some mainland.
India crush will stop.

How can the US take Korea when it can be defended with ships built in SZ6 and planes based on Japan? Wouldn’t Japan see it coming and keep/build some planes to scramble and ships to defend?

The whole point is guys, if the USA is doing this attack, Japan is pulling forces back.  They wont be spreading like a plague on the mainland and wont be gobbling up the DEI.  The whole point is to continually attack in and around the main island of Japan herself as stated before.  If I am playing Japan and I see this, the threat to my capital is far more important than trying to knock out another capital.  Honestly, the USA can put immediate pressure on Japan really fast.  If you argue that defending ships and planes would thwart or deter or slow the USA advance then you are right.  But also think, what are those units NOT doing, killing India.  It isn’t hard to see.

The question behind this thread, ‘how do stop Japan from crushing India’, is easy to answer:

Japan will crush India if it wants to, regardless of what the Allies do to try to prevent it, either with a J1, J2 or J3 attack.

The question that should have been asked is: how can the Allies take advantage of Japan going after India to win the game?

If you’re just responding to a Japanese thrust against India then you have already lost the game. If you are playing to force the Japanese player to react to your moves and assume that India is lost, regardless if that’s what happens later, then you’re balancing the odds of winning the game.

Everyone assumes that China will be crushed by Japan (at least no one seems to be discussing how stop Japan from doing it). Better to do the same with the UK.

Long time reader, first time poster.

Looking at the map here and what if with the US you stack the starting navy and subsequent tt and other navy buys with a naval base in the Aleutians?  Seems to me that from there you can hit both sz6 and 19 with suicide transports and disposable destroyers and subs?  That both poses a threat to the home islands and to the territories bordering sz19.  Carrier based planes in sz8 can hit korea is there are units there as well as japan itself if the landing force is good enough.  I havent seen anyone discuss this route yet. Thought id bring it up and see if i missed anything.