Germany Strategy concept…

[critmonster]

that i get flush but what i am saying is if the usa or uk lands in eastern europe and captures it and germany recpatures it, even if the uk or usa player only gets half the value in casualties from germany that they lose it is still to the allies advantage to do so.  also, you can capture with one country nad the reinforce with the other two, all the sudden it isn’t such a rinky-dink force anymore

[Flush]

yes, I understand the UK takes and USA takes before GER moves. I still would not bother with a stack of infantry in west euro. It is easier to concentrate your forces in GER (what you are putting on the board at the end of you turn), this allows you to counter a landing in west euro, east euro and GER.There is no point parceling out your defense.

[ezto]

It is not wise to let the US and UK take Weu. If they are winning, then you should take it back from Germany, as explained above. 6 inf and 2 fighters will stop any invasion until turn 5 or so.
To counter such invasion, you must be ready with you juiced up Baltic fleet (+1 dest) and your 5-6 fighters.

[critmonster]

well octo, i lkie a baltic fleet because it prevents uk/usa from landing in either berlin or eastern.  the ac lets you figs have a very flexible range and with the 2 ss the allies have to respect your fleet for a while.  also if the opportunity arises you can exit the baltic, either to hit uk or link with the med fleet and threaten canada and brazil.  i have done this and it is a lot of fun as well as an effective delaying tactic on the usa.  all for $16, bargain.

i think the key in western is building it up steadily to discourage landings then when they have suffecient forces pull out (including aa) and slaughter them on your next turn.  you have to do it before the force will be too large to destroy but large enough that the allies think it could be held.  either that or just keep on stackin’.  if you empty it too early you have the “piecemeal” landings in western as well as eastern and possibly southern. THAT is a pain in the a$$

[Octopus]

When I see a German naval build on the first turn, I know I have the game won.

Germany won’t be able to compete against the Russians on the Eastern Front, while it is only a matter of time for the US and UK to overcome the German navy.

I have yet to see a German naval build threaten Allied Operations to the point where the allocation of funds made it a worthy cause.

16 IPC’s for me can make or break a game.

[critmonster]

time is everything though octo, each round germany survives is one round closer to moscow for japan.  i will not argue your success without a g1 naval build, that would be kind of silly since you won 8-) but USUALLY the baltic ships are gone on UK1 without any buy up there and allied landing operations can commence immediately.  funny, i feel the opposite as the allies, if i DON’T see a german naval build i feel i have the game won

[Octopus]

While I agree that landing operations can begin quicker, their affects are limited at best.  Since the German’s have more money poured into land forces (or airpower) they can deal with the problem better (in my opinion).  These land forces can also serve double duty against Russian forces, while a German Navy cannot.

I would much like to see your German Navy in action, but I see none of your games posted.

Is there a game listed that demonstrates this so I may examine it further?

thx.

[critmonster]

my schedule (and my technology disability) make it untenable to enter into a tournament, i usuall am able to get on the site from work and that is not the best place to have a game.

on the upside, i have recently downloaded abattlemap and after the tournament is over am willing to try and do a game.  we usually play full five player n revised and i have yet to play a one on one game.

i usually play axis as well so i welcome the opportunity to fine tune allied strategy.

[Octopus]

fascinating….

[Flush]

Octo,

I share  some of GER strategies with you. I can’t recall a time ever spending money on a GER naval units. An infantry “buffer” must be created followed a stack of tanks.16 ipc’s means, 3 tanks standing in moscow after tense rolling.

Is anyone’s  group playing that tanks defend at 3 in the revised version?

[Guest]

Per all published sets of revised rules, tanks defend on 3.

As for spending money on German navy…

Leaving the Batlic at starting levels means it is sunk in UK1, period.

Adding an AC, even if you do not put FIGs on it, means that fleet will be around into turns 3, 4, or 5.

A German navy EXISTING means that the UK and US can;t just build TRNs, they HAVE to build capital ships to defend those TRN’s.

That slows down the Allies.  Even a single turn where Germany faces ONLY Russia is a massive advantage, both in tersm of force superiority AND in terms of economic increase.

It costs 16 IPC’s to keep the Baltic fleet alive a MINIMUM of another 3 TURNS.  16 IPC’s is 5 INF and an IPC… and those 5 INF are wiped out by the first Allied invasion in Turn 3 if the US and UK ONLY have to build TRNs and units to ship, and not worry about protecting them.

[Flush]

capital ships for the UK will mean, subs. The cannon fodder/infantry of the sea.

I am aware that the revised rules say tanks defend a 3.  Our group has choosen to to disregard this, who would buy infantry if armour defends at 3?

[Guest]

@Flush:

I am aware that the revised rules say tanks defend a 3.  Our group has choosen to to disregard this, who would buy infantry if armour defends at 3?

INF is 3 IPC, ARM are 5.

Spend 30 IPC’s you get 10 INF, but only 6 ARM

10 INF have a total defense value of 20, and requires 10 hits to kill
6 ARM have a total defense value of 18, and requires only 6 hits to kill.

And that is at 3x3 for ARM.

Take my advice…

Look over some of the info on the site and try a few play by e-mail or play by forum games.
I made the same types of mistakes when I first joined.  Some folks helped me find out those errors.  And a few helped me learn.
A few months later, I am in the Tournament finals here, and ranked 27th in the world at DAAK for Revised.

As for SUB’s being cannon fodder… TRUE, for NAVAL battles.

But if you want to protect TRN’s from Germany, you need ships that can fire at aircraft.  Otherwise the Luftwaffe will sink allied fleet after allied fleet, while sending ARM and INF at Russia so hard and fast that Moscow will fall by about Turn 4 or 5.

[Flush]

ncscswitch, we have never bothered with the revised tank rule. we have been playing for 15 years and found tanks defend at 3 to be unjusitified. tanks mobility exceeds any small increase in defensive odds for defense.

can u provide links for online games?

[Octopus]

Flush, at first I agreed with you that armor defending at a 3 was nonsence.  I thought this was crazy especially since Germany starts with 10 of them.  I also thought the defense of a 3 dimished the ability of a fighter.

After some play testing, I discovered why armor must defend at a 3.  I will let you figure out why.

It is necessary.

[Axel Allie]

I’m with ncscswitch,

I think the Baltic needs reinforcements…
one AC will do just fine.

I can understand why Octo has success with no Baltic buy, but for me it just doesn’t feel right :-P

[88 Millimeter]

I never, EVER bought German navy. All land (mixed with air) always felt right to me. Kill my navy and see if I care. My Infantry will overwhelm you…

But Octo, I have joined with the Evil Empire (not the NYY  :-D) of those who purchase a G1 carrier. sob  …I never thought this day would come…

The northern economy lasts longer with the Baltic fleet around. Good Allied play will kill your fleet around turn 4, but precious time was bought for 16 IPCs.

The trick is to not spend any more money on navy whatsoever. The carrier is a delaying tactic only. And I fly my Fighters to safety when destruction is imminent, rather than losing them in an attempt to take out a couple more ships.

[Guest]

That is one step 88, now how about the next one…

Consolidate navy in SZ7 on G2.  Then, in G3, attack the Allied fleets using Western and AC based FIGs as well as 3 subs, a DST, a BB, an AC, and 2 TRN’s…

Not to mention 2 TRN’s in SZ7 scares the hell out of UK :-P

[Flush]

octoc, your opinion on tanks defending@3?

[Octopus]

my opinion (however stinky it may be) is that Armor does need to defend at a 3 (for revised).