Not if your goal was to be in a mixed nationality marriage before you even meet the significant other. On the other hand both my brother and sister married Americans and seem pretty happy, but they were not shopping for a American as their spouse.
Gay Marriages
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K-Ration
well, it’s quite simple - as long as i unapologetically practice “x” sinful practice, then God is not happy with me. It does not matter if that is having sex outside of marriage, or stealing, or having homosexual sex. Hourly i want to have sex with other women. I have the choice of giving in to these desires or not (well - on occassion, anyway). If i make the choice to follow my heterosexual desires, then i am sinning if i’m not in the appropriate relationship with a woman yet have sex with her.
@F_alk:@cystic:
…The whole concept of homosexual sex is a bit absurd as it does nothing to promote the species, …
Hmmm… i guess they do as much as grandparents, who are “allowed” to live on even though they are not able to produce any more children and “promote the species”. Any non-child-bearing member of the species (in a group/family organized species like humans are among others) is a great help to those who bear childs, helping in the “household” so to say. There is homosexuality everywhere in nature, and i somewhere read about a study on the influence of that. The result was that the groups/families/clans with homosexuals aiding were raising more children than the others.
So, it’s an indirect help, but nevertheless a help. You still promote “your genes” when you make sure all your nieces and nephews survive.true. Still, two men having sex do little to aid with this. A gay man who protects his nephew from harm and teaches him a life of giving and learning and protecting others, however, will not help his young nephew survive, but rather helps him be a better person. (in my experience, this does not help one find “a woman” - i hate being the nice guy! - and does not necessarily help propagate the species - particularly relative to "hanging out in bars and having unsafe sex with women you’ve just met with IQ’s the size of their new “F**k-me pumps who are too stupid to insist on condoms blah blah blah”)
but i’m just ranting here. -
…how playing in the sewage is likely to lead to problems.
Sure anal sex might be bad, mkay. Agreed. Logical even.
But heterosexuals do that as well. Gay women don’t. So the point is ‘don’t have anal sex’ then? Discourage anal sex instead of being gay, I guess ;)
I’d still love to see the link, if you can find it again.
peace
-McGee
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the bible question is difficult. God will forgive sinners that much is true. However, we must do our best not to sin, while lust is sin it is worse to act upon those feelings. Everyone lusts and in that way everyonen sins, however, it is going a stage further to act upon it and that is why it is covered in to different Commandments (adultery and lustful thoughts are two seperate sins).
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i killed mufasa, im not going to get into a detailed discussion about sex with you, but anyone who is having anal sex with someone who currently has something up there that wants to come out is where the problem is. people who regularly practice anal sex would empty and clean (enema) their bowels before engaging in it. for hygienes sake as well as common sense. but anyway, enough of that…
it still may be a bad thing, im not trying to promote it, but like McGee said, its not homosexuality that is the problem then, its anal sex. and i would question the validity of a source that says it takes 20 years off your life, even if it does have negative effects, that sounds extremeThe whole concept of homosexual sex is a bit absurd as it does nothing to promote the species
CC, the sex is part of pleasure and love that the two men share. alot (if not most) of heterosexual sex is not done to promote the species, but for the same reason. why should gays not be allowed to practice sex for pleasure or love? also, while gays may not be able to biologically contribute to the species (excluding sperm donations/egg donations), they can promote the species. I have two gay friends who have a son, adopted of course. while he is not biologically their son, they raise him as their own, and so it goes beyond the “gay man teaching his nephew” into gay men being parents, something which absolutely promotes the species, kids need parents to live
also, Im unsure whether this is true or not, but i heard several months ago that two gay men, through some kind of manipulation of one of their sperm, had been able to biologically concieve a child. did anyone else hear about this? and whether or not it was true?
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God will forgive sinners that much is true. However, we must do our best not to sin, …
(a) Why must we?
and once that is answered i assume the following question from would be:
(b) What about confessions? -
Well, I can see we aren’t going get get very far with this one. =p
This: ‘Hourly i want to have sex with other women.’
Is a sin, according to mainstream Christian belief. Acting on it is also a sin. If you desire a woman/man, are not married to them, and have sex with them, you have committed at the very least 2 sins. Probably more.
I didn’t make it up, I dont agree with it, I don’t believe it. But the message cannot be more clear.
The only way I can see one being a non-sinning homosexual, is if the man somehow knew he was gay, without ever having looked at another man and feeling desire for him. Is that even possible?
Either way, I understand the point you are trying to make. I can understand you not liking the ‘act’, and still being able to feel sympathy (or whatever) for the guy, especially if you view it as genetically driven.
The problem is, this is not the church of CC. I wish it were.
Your view and the Christian God’s are not the same on this issue.
Which bring us back to the crux of the discussion. I wont reiterate it, as it doesn’t seem anyone wants to answer my original question.
I_killed_mufasa:
What evidence do you have that shows lust is a lesser sin than adultery?
Janus1:
I didn’t hear that, it doesn’t sound right, and for the love of GOD I hope it isn’t true. You’d have to be able to turn sperm into an egg - if we can do that, Holy crap.
~cheers
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well it isnt possible to have a sinless homosexual, mainly because it isnt possible to have a sinless human being.
As for lust, it is clearly a sin and one needs to ask god for forgivness for it, however, to go out and act uppon that lust is just saying to god you really dont care what he thinks. -
So then everyone who has ever acted upon lust is not in Heaven?
And why is it not possible to have a sinless human being?
It seems difficult, to be sure. But not impossible. After all, wasn’t Jesus -
Never mind.
~cheers
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I think it might be interesting to start arguing from a position of a person faithful to a different religion. I guess it would quickly become a mess:
After all, all christians are following an outdated way of praising God, and calling the prophet Jesus the son of God is a terrible sin, surely on the day of the Judgement the attending Jesus will not tolerate such a blasphemy.
And of course there is only one god and no such thing as a trinity.
Now, this is the truth as we all know.I guess some of the christians around here should be rather glad that the atheists and agnostics around do not take up such a stance but try to argue in the way that Renessaince and Enlightenment have tought us.
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lust and sin is slightly off topic, but yes Jesus never did sin, but he was hardly a regular human either
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Of course Jesus was human. He was a prophet, nothing more, nothing less.
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I believe the cleric Enoch never sinned either, and for this, was rewarded by God with the position of Metatron. of course, all that is assuming god exists, which he doesnt.
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Again where to begin . . .
I’ll go from last-post first.
Janus1 - Enoch, i don’t believe was a cleric per se, and it never says that he never sinned. Rather he walked closely with God, and so he never “died” but was simply taken to heaven.
F_alk - we both know that Jesus was not simply a prophet. He was either the Son of God, a crazy fool, or a liar. Be true to yourself - you believe he existed, so call it as you see it. He was a crazy fool or a liar in your opinion.
For the whole “lust” thing . . . i’m not certain that wanting to have sex with a woman is a “sin”. Jesus says that someone who commits adultery in his heart is guilty of committing it period. This is to say that if i lust after a married woman (i.e. if i do more than simply say that a married woman is attractive, but rather yearn to have sex with her), then i am guilty of committing adultery with her. Believe it or not, i actually do make a conscious effort to not lust after/fantasize about a woman who is taken. As for the single ones, well, I’m not feeling too bad about my feelings there. We’re expected to want to have sex with women, its the actual commission of this outside of marriage that makes things dicey.
As for homosexuals . . . i think that most rational Christians view it as “love the sinner, hate the sin”. -
my mistake CC.
not a cleric, but a prophet and a scribewww.belinus.co.uk/doorsofpeace/AngelsMetatron.htm
www.circle-of-light.com/Psychic_Readings/metatron.html
www.crystalinks.com/metatron.htmlaccording to these, and other sources, Enoch earned such merit in the eyes of God, that he became the Metatron, a sort of Super Angel (as i understand it, outside of the classical angelic heirarchy). it does not say specifically that he did not sin, however, i would imagine that to earn such merit in the eyes of god, he would have to be almost without sin, if not without sin entirely.
interestingly enough, i became interested in the metatron business from the movie Dogma. the religious lore is actually quite interesting, even though i do not believe it. however, the most interesting bits seem to come predominantly from the Old Testament.
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@cystic:
F_alk - we both know that Jesus was not simply a prophet. He was either the Son of God, a crazy fool, or a liar. Be true to yourself - you believe he existed, so call it as you see it. He was a crazy fool or a liar in your opinion.
Well, the latest holy book of three religions that praise the same good clearly calls Jesus a prophet. Thus, logically, i have to take him as such. I do not trust too old books and information when learning ;)
For my personal opinion: I think he actually was some kind of preacher (which IMO in that times often were called prohpets regardless of wether they could tell the future or not) and social reformer. What people made of him after his death is a totally different story. -
i think that gay couples are ok but marriage is wrong. I have nothing against anyone but it is just different so techically no i am not for gay marraige but i guess it could be oh and mutharussia–- that was really cool that u made sure about the racial thing!!
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mutharussia–- that was really cool that u made sure about the racial thing!!
I try! :wink: 8)
Thanks! -
mutharussia–- that was really cool that u made sure about the racial thing!!
I try! :wink: 8)
Thanks, I don’t get compliments on this site much! :lol: -
I am not gay.
I have gay friends.
If they wish to marry eachother. Fine.
Would it worsen my life in any way? No
Would it lower gas prices? No
Would it stop the war? No
Will God punish this? Who knows? Maybe. Then again maybe he’ll punish people who are too fat. :-?
If you’re not gay. Don’t marry your same sex.
If you are gay. Marry your same sex.
IMO this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with prejudice. As for the God factor, we will all answer for something :wink:
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:lol: Genius, Genius! :lol:
But good points!
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