There’s been a Lucas McCain sighting!
Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ
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Thats ok… Just sick of all these false acxcusations… :-?
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So with regards to the whole “sacrifice” thing . . . .
The reason that this considered the greatest sacrifice in history is not because of the pain, or because of the nature of the death.
The thing of it is that Jesus was “perfect” - he was without sin - even original sin. Yet he “took on our sins” when he died on the cross. at that time God “turned his back” on Christ (as sin is intolerable by God). This is perhaps the most anguishing feature of The Crucifiction, and something that could not be adequately portrayed on screen.
With regards to K Ration’s consideration that this “was not such a big sacrifice on his part” . . . well, even if it just were a simple crucifiction of an innocent man, i still would consider this a pretty nasty sacrifice. -
granted, even though it is just a simple crucifiction of an innocent man, it is pretty gruesome, but like K-ration said, i can think of much worse things.
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We are forgetting Christ’s words to the Father- “Forgive them for they know not what they do”.
Anyone can be executed back in the Roman times- but to ask forgiveness for those who did it…. That’s the message.
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@cystic:
…(as sin is intolerable by God).
Can you forgive things that are intolerable ?
I can’t, not as long as the intolerable fact is still “in place”. I can forgive former intolerables though, with a bit of effort.
Now we have the situation that all intolerables of the future are somehow transfered back, so that they become past and are forgivable?
Hmmm… i do have problems with that. -
Well, like I said. I understand the ramifications, and why his sacrifice is important to Christians. It was a swell thing to do. And yes, crucifiction is not a fun way to go. But the point I’d like to touch on, (which some of you have) is what makes it a true sacrifice on the part of Jesus.
When I think of sacrifice, I think of giving up more than you get. I think of major loss, on a permanent basis.
So let’s say Jesus did take on the sins of mankind while on the cross. And let’s say God did turn his back on him. Horrible. Painful. Agonizing. Lasted three days. Thats the sacrifice.
Eternity in Heaven, Eternity of bliss, seated at the right hand of the Father. Millions praising your name daily. That’s the reward.
Can you even compare those two?
The only way Christ’s sacrifice could have been significant would be if he were to cease existence upon death. Otherwise, it’s a fake sacrifice basically done by God for personal amusement. Consistent with the being who told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac and say “just kidding” at the last minute, or allowed a good man to suffer inordinately just to win a bet.
IMHO. =)
~cheers
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if God had truly turned his back on Jesus, and if he had taken on mankinds sins, shouldnt he have gone to hell?
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I think that’s the idea, but like all good religions, it depends on who you talk to.
Some think the literal Hell; some think Hell is just the absence of God’s grace. Some say he suffered the torment of all those ever sent to Hell.
They can up the ante and keep revising it all they want as far as I’m concerned. It was a finite punishment, rewarded by everlasting glory. It was not a sacrifice. Jesus was ‘inconvenienced’ for our sins.
~cheers
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K Ration - i’ll refrain from being personal, even tho’ what you say actually wounds me deeply.
The reason this is a sacrifice is that Jesus was already seated at the “right hand of God”. He came to earth in order to die for our sins. The fact that he was resurrected and returned to heaven shortly after does not make the punishment that he took a mere inconvenience.
No, a few extra minutes in traffic is an inconvenience. A day of punishment at the hands of Roman soldiers concerned with the possibility of a rebellion and pissed off with the fact that they had to live in a backwater like Israel, being continually scourged, beaten and tormented, and crucified . . . i don’t know - if you feel that’s an inconvenience, well you must have far fewer pain receptors in your body than i. -
I think the point K-Ration wanted to make was that each sacrifice has to be seen in relation.
For us humans, a few extra minutes in traffic are about a few minutes of say 75 years. For Jesus being more-than-human, some 30ish years of human life and say one week of extreme pain is not so much compared to the eternity of his “conscious being”, “seated at the right hand of God”.
So, apart from seeing things in relation, K-Ration takes into account that Jesus is more than mortal, as even in human form he has knowledge and a time frame of things that humans possibly only get to know after their death. -
further, the concept of jesus being god’s son is confusing. what does it mean? if he already existed before he was born on earth, then who bore him? or did he spring forth from god, a la athena? or did he always exist, like god? or is he god? in which case, how is he seated at his right hand?
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Well said F_alk.
~cheers
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Janus1, thats the trinity…
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I don’t recall Janus1 mentioning the Holy Spirit.
That makes it even more confusing.
~cheers
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Just noticed - that makes 100 for me! Yippee!
:(
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Talk about useless posts about post count… :roll:
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Talk about useless posts about post count… :roll:
uhuh…If it comes to my rememberance you posted about the same subject… :wink:
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@Guerrilla:
Talk about useless posts about post count… :roll:
uhuh…If it comes to my rememberance you posted about the same subject… :wink:
i have to agree - this is pot-calling-the-kettle-blackism.
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MuthaRussia:
So many ways to reply….but I will refrain. I … must … refrain …
Now THAT was a sacrifice.
~cheers
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Yeah, but i was almost crucified by everyone for saying that! :lol:
That was MY sacrifice! :lol:
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