Elaborate
Elaborate
The only reason why Lincoln freed the slaves was because he was afraid of the thought of France or Britain (both of which abolished slavery years ago) entering the Civil War on the side of the Confederacy. Think about it, if Abraham Lincoln really wanted to “emancipate” the slaves, why do it with just “liberated” Southern territories, rather than the border pro-slavery states that Lincoln had placed marital law under.
TG I agree with you as to why Lincoln put forth the Emancipation Proclamation. However that document freed slaves in the rebel states, not the pro-un-slavery border states. They remained slaves until a bit later. I recommend Gore Vidal’s “Lincoln” for an interesting insight of our 16th President.
Dubya also Gatorade
Correction, my last post should read pro-slavery border states.
Dubya also Gatorade
Yeah, I heard of Lincoln before… I hear it even puts into light parts of where Lincoln was a borderline fascist.
Lincoln- I think we can pardon his constitutional “stretches”.
Lincoln’s own notion was to preserve the Union. And it was done.
As far as the Stars and Bars go:
I am from New York-
I live in Florida-
I am Conservative-
Majored in history-
And as such know that the Stars and Bars is
a Battle flag- also known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. They were the Confedetes and were pro slavery.
The Stars and Bars was adopted by the early members of the Klan
because it was an easily recognizable symbol of “The South”
and "The South " meant Slavery.
The First meeting of the Klan Took place in 1870 (which was after the war had ended.)
In other words; any confederate symbols that would adorn a State flag would have been put there AFTER the US Civil War.
The Logic is very simple: The Flag of the Army of N. Virginia didn’t EXIST
BEFORE the CW.
I could go on about how the DEMOCRATS controlled the South until the 1970’s but that has already been covered. I will confine myself to one point:
If folks were so upset that the Confederate flag’s not being flown anymore then where were these same folks when their symbol was Co-opted by the Klan or the Skinheads?
No where!
If folks were so upset that the Confederate flag’s not being flown anymore then where were these same folks when their symbol was Co-opted by the Klan or the Skinheads?
I never seen any skinhead groups use the Confed flag, though I might be wrong. As for the Klan, do they still use the NV Battle Flag?
Even putting aside the rascist and hateful elements of the Klan, I could never respect them. Just look at their fruity uniform. Its not even a full length robe anymore! and a number of the Imperial Wizards, or whatever the hell the other ridiculous titles they use, wear black robes……
Maybe its just me, but that seems fundamentally wrong based on what the Klan stands for. Its ludacris.
Shermie,
kinda playing it from all sides.
Born(?) a Yankee,
Lives in a non-state(Civil War era,)
And spouts Southern Dixie trivia!
NOTE: The then-Governor of South Carolina who put the Confederate flag atop the state capitol building is none other than the soon-to-be-retiring Senator Hollings of South Carolina!
Ain’t it amazing that a social club can resurrect and become a hate group!
The Democrat Party of the Civil War era was conservative, but now it’s…Howard Dean(anti-war), Hillary Clinton(a coattail rider), Ted Kennedy(a drunk-driving killer), and William Byrd( a retired Grand Dragon of the KKK.)
The Republican Party of the Civil War era was liberal, but now it’s…GW Bush(a Nazi for US President), controlling the House of Representatives(which balanced the federal budget during the Clinton Administration), as well as starving our children and grandparents.
:roll:
:lol:
All Sides- Right all three times Jefe- I get really agravated when these pro Flag people start citing history!
Any you are correct Sen. “Whole lotta cosumin’ gone on daere” Hollings is responsible!
Damn straight!
I remember film footage of him saying he hadn’t fought anything as evil as this(referring to the Republican’s around the time of the Contract With America) since he was in Germany(WWII.) He was equating the Republican Party with Nazis!!
He is an A_S_S if there ever was one in congress.
Yeah, Abe bent the Constitution. But the country was going through the Civil War! Who can blame him.
Abe may not of believed in what he did, but his voters did.
Damn Straight!
Maybe Abe had more devious plans in mind…
Damn Straight!
you know, you doing that all the time is little better than spam. Are you trying to up your count?
I’ve been thinking about Abe recently. I wonder if he wasn’t directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and the civil war. I mean, its well and good to try to end slavery, but really - if a group of states democratically voted to secceed from the union, then who was he to send thousands of soldiers to their deaths in order to wage war on the south? In my mind, he’s one of the biggest warmongers of the 19th century after Napoleon and Kaiser Wilhelm the somethingith. Was it really necessary for all of that carnage and destruction? So many men killed and so many families broken? As for slavery - he didn’t really end it so much as mitigate it. Afro-Americans didn’t really have rights until the 1960’s anyway.
(mostly being facitious, but something i was thinking about)
you know, you doing that all the time is little better than spam. Are you trying to up your count?
Not at all. Its funny (at least to me) and it sums up my feelings when I post it. If I were trying to up my count, Id do it better than that (i.e. post one word each time to make sentences).
As for Abe being a warmongerer, thats probably the first time Ive heard that opinion. While I could go off on a rant about this (because frankly I want to) Ill try to be a little more fair. What then, may I ask, is your opinion about Quebec trying to break away? And even if you think they should have been able to secede, do you think they should have been able to keep their slavery? Because thats what it boils down to, they seceeded over slavery. Yes, their were immediate causes, and other long-term tensions and issues, but the primary factor was slavery, and that was the symbol of the Northern/Southern rivalry.
I’ve been thinking about Abe recently. I wonder if he wasn’t directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and the civil war. I mean, its well and good to try to end slavery, but really - if a group of states democratically voted to secceed from the union, then who was he to send thousands of soldiers to their deaths in order to wage war on the south? In my mind, he’s one of the biggest warmongers of the 19th century after Napoleon and Kaiser Wilhelm the somethingith. Was it really necessary for all of that carnage and destruction? So many men killed and so many families broken? As for slavery - he didn’t really end it so much as mitigate it. Afro-Americans didn’t really have rights until the 1960’s anyway.
Honestly I really don’t know how to seperate fact from fiction. People view from as a warmonger, others justify his warmongering, and others refute both and see him the true patriot and hero. Even though I am a Confederate, I would like to see Abe as a all around good guy. Afterall, he is one of few good role models left (anywhere in the world). His name is synonymous with honesty and integrity – and when’s the last time you’ve ever heard of that in a politician? (okay, John McCain aside) This is one topic that I feel will never have a “right answer.”
Because thats what it boils down to, they seceeded over slavery. Yes, their were immediate causes, and other long-term tensions and issues, but the primary factor was slavery, and that was the symbol of the Northern/Southern rivalry.
No it wasn’t. The main cause was based on economics - plain and simple. As for slavery being “the symbol” between North-South rivalry - then why were abolitionists a very tiny minority moment on both sides? Why was racism greater in the north than in the south?
abolitionists mean nothing. the vast majority of northerners were against slavery, but in a classic american style, only a small group tried to do anything about it. the rest just ignored it, since they lived up north. as for the south, id expect there to be low numbers of abolitionists, as slavery was part of southern culture at the time, whether you owned slaves or not.
As for Abe being a warmongerer, thats probably the first time Ive heard that opinion. While I could go off on a rant about this (because frankly I want to) Ill try to be a little more fair. What then, may I ask, is your opinion about Quebec trying to break away? And even if you think they should have been able to secede, do you think they should have been able to keep their slavery? Because thats what it boils down to, they seceeded over slavery. Yes, their were immediate causes, and other long-term tensions and issues, but the primary factor was slavery, and that was the symbol of the Northern/Southern rivalry.
o most definetly there would still be a war if they got rid of slavery but still seceeded. but what you said about opposition to the north ordering their lives was very much about slavery. a number of the immediate causes (dredd scott case (sp?), harper’s ferry, lincoln’s election) were directly related to slavery, and prompted many southerners to support secession for fear of losing their precious slavery. as far as long term, the economics of it and the slavery went hand in hand. the soutern economy being dependent on slaves, and the northern industrial economy exploiting them by pushing (to southern minds) unfairly high prices on them. and a deep seated resentment between the two areas was the fight over slavery (examples: missouri compromise, texas, california, kansas-nebraska, runaway slaves, etc.). no war is caused by any one thing, but one of the major causes of the civil war was slavery.
