Alpha+ 1

[MistuhJay]

Something that’s been bothering me- tanks seem extremely underwhelming. Attack 2, defend 1 for 6 bucks? Absorb a hit only on attack? Should be a 3/2 for that price, or drop the cost to 5.

I understand it has to do with balance, buy AA42’s tanks are 3/3, move 2 for 610 IPCs, and even THAT seems barely worth it.

[Flashman]

India is probably considered a safety valve for a UK that has lost its home navy.  It can stay active rather than just build up home defences.

I’d prefer to have a limit, and allow some Africa build AKA Askaris.

[Flashman]

See the thread below about tanks.

In WWI they were a breakthrough weapon, practically useless in defence. Its generous giving them a defensive roll at all.

As I’ve suggested, an adjustment giving artillery the ability to support an infantry AND a tank would solve the tank weakness and encourage combined arms building.

@MistuhJay:

Something that’s been bothering me- tanks seem extremely underwhelming. Attack 2, defend 1 for 6 bucks? Absorb a hit only on attack? Should be a 3/2 for that price, or drop the cost to 5.

I understand it has to do with balance, buy AA42’s tanks are 3/3, move 2 for 610 IPCs, and even THAT seems barely worth it.

[MistuhJay]

@Flashman:

See the thread below about tanks.

In WWI they were a breakthrough weapon, practically useless in defence.

An effective breakthrough weapon-deserving of more than a 2 for attack. An attack of 3, boosted to 4 with art, would be ideal.

[Flashman]

But that would mean changing the battleboard.

My proposal only means changing the rule.

[oztea]

Flash, opting for the more simple route of making tanks more useful.

This is the kind of thinking we need. Small changes.

[wove100]

Proposed fix for Russian Revolution Rules:

Change:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories or Russian-controlled territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

To:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

[BJCard]

@wove100:

Proposed fix for Russian Revolution Rules:

Change:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories or Russian-controlled territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

To:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

So, what to do with a hypothetical big Russian stack in Istanbul?  remove the units and then who controls Istanbul?

[TheVenocWarlord]

@BJCard:

@wove100:

Proposed fix for Russian Revolution Rules:

Change:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories or Russian-controlled territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

To:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

So, what to do with a hypothetical big Russian stack in Istanbul?  remove the units and then who controls Istanbul?

No one. It would be left open for any power to claim back.

[wove100]

@TheVenocWarlord:

@BJCard:

@wove100:

Proposed fix for Russian Revolution Rules:

Change:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories or Russian-controlled territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

To:

All Russian units outside of original Russian territories are immediately removed from the board, and Russia will no longer have a turn.

So, what to do with a hypothetical big Russian stack in Istanbul?  remove the units and then who controls Istanbul?

No one. It would be left open for any power to claim back.

I agree. Though not perfect, I think this solution is better than the one the rules are pointing at in which Russia would retain control of Constantinople but the Central Powers would not be allowed to even attempt to regain it.

[Flashman]

Don’t see the difference; Russia still controls Istanbul regardless of the units being removed. Having units in a tt does not = control.

You need to specifically state that revolutionary Russia relinquishes control of all tts outside Russia.

[BJCard]

The CPs should be able to attack russian territories outside of original ones.

[oztea]

We still have to address what happens to allied units in Russia after a revolution.
And if the CP MUST accept the revolution.
If they are at the gates of moscow and need it to win, and Russia wants peace, why should the CP accept?

The CP should be allowed to refuse the armistice to prevent allied players from willingly playing Russia into a situation where it will surrender.

[Flashman]

The Bolsheviks (at least Lenin) were sent into Russia by Germany to work in German interests.

If we assume that the RR is the Communist takeover, rather than that of the Provisional government (the rules imply that this is the case), then the whole point is that Revolutionary Russia does not act in the Allied interest; the pro-Allied regime has been overthrown.

This is why the Revolution should occur at the end of a CP player’s turn, otherwise the Allies will manipulate it in their own interest by, for example, withdrawing units from specific tts with post-revolutionary aims in mind.

In my version I go way beyond this, with the German-controlled Bolsheviks fighting  Allied-controlled Whites for control of Russia, the various warring powers intervening to back their own clients.

[TheVenocWarlord]

@oztea:

We still have to address what happens to allied units in Russia after a revolution.
And if the CP MUST accept the revolution.
If they are at the gates of moscow and need it to win, and Russia wants peace, why should the CP accept?

The CP should be allowed to refuse the armistice to prevent allied players from willingly playing Russia into a situation where it will surrender.

Or you could just not shoot for fulfilling all the requirements for to occur if you think that situation will happen. ;)

[Quintus Fabius Maximus]

For those who have played the game, with having switzerland attackable, will this help the allies or the central powers?

Yes germany has another front to attack france from but this also allows italy to mobilize and attack germany faster and supporting france at the same time.

Im starting think making switzerland unpassable may tip better chances for germany to win. Anyone care to enlighten me on the situation on that front?

[Flashman]

I fully intend to use Switzerland as a hub for Austria and Germany in a Paris-Rome strategy.

This was even before I discovered it was so thinly defended. But with both A & G able to pile units in there before France or Italy move it would be criminal not to take it.

I also infer from the low IPC value that the designers fully intend that the CPs should do this, otherwise it would surely be at least 3 IPCs.

[Quintus Fabius Maximus]

This means switzerland is going to become a very war torn area real quick. :-P

With that becoming a hub for ah and g, that will very well encourage britain to send troops to the western front as soon as possible eliminating any real threat by putting units in india. With france and italy on the balance of life or death its going to be a race against time to take or support those places. The ottomans can sen some units to russia and take care of british troops in india and africa to get some ipcs.

With a combined effort of all cp nations, russia will get boggled down. Whether you have the revolution rules or not could provide interesting outcomes. Ill have to try that out.

Then comes america. France should be taken or should be almost dead along with italy if all goes well. How easy they will fall is something i would like to know. If the allies can hold there ground during all of that, the cp will have a hard time winning. Ill guess ill have to play myself to find out but these strategies will probably is what ill try if im the cp. Anyone else have some ideas on what will happen? Its hard to speculate this, but the only thing that i need changed is the russia revolution rules.Better clarification would solve this and doesnt need overhualed. Like flashman said also about the tanks could also help them more to be bought.

Alwell, enough thinking outloud and speculating. This will hopfully be realy fun to play.:)

[oztea]

Realistically Switzerland is as impassable as Sahara or the Himalayas.
It’s criminal that you are allowed to attack it.

Much like in revised, germany could sail into the black sea and bombard Stalingrad.
A gross misrepresentation of history!
Shame on Larry.

[Flashman]

Some early thoughts on rejigging the naval setup:

1. Move the British BB off India to the Grand Fleet. It has little use where it is, but back home it would just about equalize the initial naval battle (which will become standard German practice as things stand).

2. Compensate Germany by giving it a transport with the HSF. This can then be used to threaten invasions in the Baltic and North Sea.

3. Break up the Turksih navy. In August 1914 Turkey didn’t have a navy, certainly not a modern one.

4. Replace the two Turksih cruisers with German ones (this makes it historically correct; these probably represent the same ships after all). One (Konigsburg) starts in SZ 26 off East Africa. T’other (Goeben) starts in SZ17 or 18 depending on possible tweaks to Turksih and Italian entry rules (see below).

5. I’d really recommend giving Battleships and Cruisers a commerce raiding ability:

If a surface warship starts a turn in an uncontested SZ and does not move this turn, it may fire one shot at any adjacent enemy controlled land tt. The damage is taken in IPCs equivalent to the roll of 1 dice per ship, but no more than the value of the tt being bombarded. Different ships in the same SZ may bombard different tts.

In my test game the German HSF defeated the RN, and is now sitting in SZ 9. The Allies plan to assemble a new fleet in SZ 8 to commence cross-channel movement, with little concern about the German BB & Cruiser sitting off London.
But if the German ships can start bombarding the English coastline they would have to be removed ASAP, completely altering Allied strategy.

Likewise the cruiser off East Africa. It can do little damage down there, but is an annoyance to the Allies and could threaten the Indian transport convoy.

Regarding Turksih and Italian entry. These countries joined the war a little after the other Europeans; nearly a year later for the Italians.

I suggest that they are not considered to be at war until either they are attacked, or their own turn begins. This would mean:

The Goeben could either start in SZ 17, or from SZ 18 move to SZ 20 and the safety of the Turksih minefields without running afoul of the Italian navy. It could then trigger the Turksih war declaration and convert to Islam. This could be part of a general rule allowing A & G to supply Turkey with units in Constantinople and SZ 20.

This actually places the Austrians in an awkward position; do they attack Venice and bring Italy into the war early, and thus cut off the Goeben from reaching Constantinople?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_Goeben_and_Breslau