when i’m playing A&A, there’s almost a newbe player. The eternal question is, wich country we can give to the newbe.
Russia is vital for the allies to stand, if she’s wiped out of the Map the allies are surelly doom to die
If the german players does one little error that’s could cost the game to the axis, so if that player is a newbe…
UK must stand on every front to block the ¨always ipc hungry¨ axis. But you have to know exactly were you have to put the most of your ressources, were the axis players are the most dangerous…
Support of Japan to smash russia and join the Germans terytorries is absolutely necessary and don’t forget to keep the US at distance
And then US’s role is vital to support the two others allies, and a couple of US error can place the allies in a precarious position…
Maybe i’m totally wrong but the songs remains the same : wich country to give to a newbe ???
Give the newbie the russians, as long as he does everything you say it ususally works out well :-)
BB
i am one of the few Jap votes.
Give the newbie the Japanese. This way they will more readily adopt facility with the various ship and plane movements, as well as transport and logistical requirements to do well with other countries. Plus its the funnest country (IMO) to play and it’s nice to get the newbies hooked early.
If you just want to win, then BB is correct - give them the russians, tell them to stand and die.
i agree with that as long as he’s doing what you told him to do with USSR… everythig should be fine but that’s not the happiest way to learn :lol:
russia for sure, all you have to worry about is tanks and men, so it’s simpler
as long as they know the basics about russia stratey, they wouldn’t screw their opponents nearly as much as with any other country
a lot of people said the usa.
i might even argue that the usa is the hardest country to play?! This is partly because of that german bomber in western europe, and mostly because you have to balance everything exactly to get the most men across the sea 1-2 infantry can make the difference here.
in order of easiest to hardest (of course this is just what i think is easiest to screw up if you are new)
germany - screw this one up, and it’s really over, germany is tough
usa
uk
japan - japan isn’t all that hard to play really…
russia
of course this is all relative, and i’m not talking about someone who has never played before, just someone who has only played 20-30 games or something.
what do you think?
The one thing that makes Russia unique is that Russia NEVER has to think perhaps it’s time to build bombers, or a navy or do weapons development.
My thinking is as follows:
The russians build infantry, the odd tank, attack when it’s to your advantage, retreat when it’s to your advantage. Anything bold they do must be supported and initiated by one of the other 2 allies. It’s all tactical.
The other 4 nations have the ability to change things in a big way. The other 4 nations must be able to see trends and react before it’s too late. They must be able to see far enough in advance to know when to do weapons rolls while you still have time to take advantage of obtained weapons. Russia cannot be a game changer like the other 4 nations and for that reason alone, seasoned players should be the ones to have to decide such things as whether or not to use fleets or factories or weapons rolls to project ultimate power.
BB
Give a newbie the USA and do a Germany First strategy.
But if you want to teach someone how to play, from zero, i think the best way is to play a two country war as a first game … Germany (for the Newb) vs USSR (for the not-so-newb)
I disagree. The US is probably the hardest country to play as a newbie. How would a newbie know when it’s time to switch some focus to the Japanese side or when to do weapons rolls.
Playing a 2 country game teaches about a 2 country game, which A&A ain’t. If you are playing a real game and have a newbie who you don’t want to tell to go home then Russia seems the safest bet for all.
The best way for a newbie to learn is to play the game completely by himself, play each country himself. A few attacks where he sees, “Yeah, i won the battle but then lost all my tanks on the counterattack” and he will learn.
BB
I can see your point, and for a 5 player game, and a newbie that already knows the basics, I am begining to think you are right … USA has a world to save and is pretty tricky come to think of it.
However, what I meant with a Russia - Germany conflict (and this is how I have tought some fellow spaniards :lol: ) is that with Germany, the soon-to-be-absorbed-into-the-game victim, has to be able to see how Land Air and See move and fight, what the economy is all about, and some basic thinking of how to resolve easy problems (of course, the “teacher” has to play to win). There is only one front, and this helps the newb concentrate on a simple task.
I belive that a newbie can become overwhelmed and discouraged if he sees too many things to think about, too many units and too many decissions to take.
First time I saw the game I thought "I will never learn … "
:D
Random thoughts …
Japan is an excellent choice as it attacks and defends without dying :wink: on J1.
First, ya gotta know how much instruction the newby will accept.
If NONE … then let him/her play a game by her/himself.
Never allow newbies to play Germany unless all are new - or all are new but you and you play UK(warning him/her to always protect Germany with inf.)
Other than the above my group likes to give the newby her/his choice after one of us explains the main objectives of any country the newby’s interested in. After s/he choses, we offer them a 3x5 index card with three(3) points we HIGHLY recommend they follow, five(5) points of which we recommend they follow any three(3) they chose, and three(3) warnings. We also leave the instructions close to the newby.
We came up with these cards to have an option to babysitting or flat out losing with the newby on your side.
Some want to watch a game first, which we consider the worst alternative.
We also give them the option of talking them through a first move and then reducing the advice as the game progresses.
Kantabricus, you make some good points. I still say let the newbie take the game home a few days ahead of time and set it up. Perhaps the newbie has to lose once first. I did, I got spanked. So I borrowed a game, and spent lots of time with nobody distracting me.
The nice thing is that if you do a really dumb move as Russia, then as Germany you SEE _how dumb a move that was, you can go back as ‘russia’ and correct it, THEN do Germany’s move.
If you start the game off wrong, then all you learn after the first turn is how to play a game that starts off really really bad. Let that come later, it always does!
BB_
We used to give the newbie the United States and tell him to “let 'er rip!” If the Japanese player did not attack Hawaii, the newbie would always blow huge wads on the Pacific fleet. If the Japanese did attack Hawaii, the newbie would buy fistfuls of bombers & put a factory in Alaska. Little effort was ever made, without a little coaxing, to assist the UK or Russia.
It seems to be an epidemic amongst new players to see the Japanese fleet and use their economic weight to slam the Land of the Rising Sun. While this is effective, to an extent, the complications arise when all monies are spent in one area and all influence in Asia is lost.
A good G1 that wipes out all UK sea units leaves the Allies in the lurch in the Atlantic, and Africa in serious peril. An effective US player knows when to throw all his weight into one area, and when to divide and conquer.
After saying all that, I think that the US is still the easiest way to get a rookie some playing time. The economic freedom and relative separation leaves room for error. The downside is the same relative separation.
I can agree that if you want to “throw them into the fun”, Japan is the way to go. Japan is for the “type A” personality with a good sense of humor. The UK is for the intellectual, patient type. Their personality usually resembles pocket lint. Russia is for the middle-lower class 9-5er. He just goes to work every round and hopes not to get %*(#ed by bad luck. The US can be the “everyman” of the game, and Germany is for the angry.
I agree that no newbie should ever play Germany. I made that mistake 15 years ago, and I am still an angry, but wiser, man. I took one look at that compact, angry, fully-stocked, gray little country and just fell in love. I still think that I drive aggressively because of Germany. I have to reel myself in when I hear a British accent. I heard the words “heavy bombing” the other day and fell out of my chair. One of these days when I visit Moscow, I’m going to place one little gray tank in the middle of Red Square.
See what I mean? This should not be cast upon anyone who just wants to play a game.
Are you from the US All Gravy?
I was wondering, 'cause i live in Denmark and here a newbie US player can be counted on to make at least a decent effort to liberate Western Europe (an, incedently Denmark) from the nazi yoke.
I Was thinking maybe patriotism played a role so any newbie wacks the guy closest to his own backyard.
Still he would split his ressources, and i agree with you that any newbie would need some friendly coaching if he has to play US.
You should point out to any newbie that this is not WWII but a game and if he starts trying to recreate wwII step by step he will get killed.
Yup Riker, I’m from the US and I think that there is either “fleet fear” or fleet envy" of Japan at the beginning of the game. Just seeing all the US income does something to their heads, I think. The Pacific is dominated by the Japanese, and the US players probably see a way to 1.) get into the combat quickly. 2.) support the Soviet Far East & re-establish Asian presence. or 3.) just pound the Japanese fleet.
I’m not sure why that seems to be the trend, but it is.
Suprise, suprise I still don’t agree. I’d say of the 2 axis nations Japan is the harder. Yeah the german initial move is tough, so lay that out for the newbie, perhap suggest round 2 moves, but within a few rounds Germany is more straight forward then Russia, granted, the game can unfold many ways depending on play style.
Usually, Germany starts off complicated but gets simple, once a newbie grasps what can hit western europe, germany and eastern europe all he has to do is build infantry and cover those 3 territories say by round 3-4.
By the latter rounds the Japs are huge and might be a bit daunting for a newbie. For the Axis, the game often hinges on the Germans holding tight while the Japs do something to break the game open.
In my games the Brits often do more attacking than anyone else, I use them to attrit the Japs. I try to preserve the US and russians so they have a potent 1-2 punch against the Germans. In this sense, both the US and Brits are equally tough to play for a newbie.
I guess it boils down to how the game will develop with the newbie.
BB
the reason germany is harder is because it’s a balancing game. This means you need just the right amount in eastern europe to make sure it will hold
if you get it just right to the infantry, then you may have enough to hold we as well
if you can’t figure this out, then you will either lose, or trade we
that’s why germany is so hard, especially for the newbie, it takes time to figure it out
japan basically has to get transports and men and use the infantry push mechanic with dead zones
this is the basic idea, of course there is much more involved for a well played japan
most allied wins that come from axis blunders are german blunders, not jap blunders. can we agree on this? If germany doesn’t put the exact amount of infantry on it’s territories, it becomes inefficiant, and good allies will punish for this. Japan just isn’t on the same type of pressure level
Yeah, I can buy that. But…… For the Jap player to really shine they have to go into Africa with fleet almost always. That is the tricky part. When you do this it interferes with the normal push of infantry via transports. Do you purchase more transports or an IC?
The problem is a newbie might make an error early, with german this is generally more fatal. Mind you, I doubt anybody would let a newbie do something catastrophic.
BB
from my experience germany is easier to screw up, and the hardest to understand how to manage. Sure there are different strategies with japan with industries, retaking africa etc, but germany has it tough
it depends on how new the player is though, and how new their opponents are.
if the player is really new, germany may be better than japan
if the player has experience, and knows basic stuff, germany should be left for the better axis player.
these are only my opinions of course, i just think japan is easier to pick up, as i still have a tough time with germany. Germany is usually under a lot of pressure even very early on, so it’s extremely tricky.
if you are only going to play 4-5 turns (typical board played game) then give the better player germany
it’s really an opinion though so we could argue forever… In any case beginners should really play one of the allies with help from other allies.
perhaps we can agree on this!
Yeah, I agree that a newbie should play on the Allies. The Allies require teamwork and they have to help each other out anyway. With a newbie on the team as a weaker country you can come to the rescue or try to fix his mistakes.
Every country has a role to play and can screw up the game for their side. I’d give a newbie the UK - It’s more fun than buying all INF with USSR and they can follow the US lead in the Atlantic. The US can guard Africa and UK can send planes and men to Karelia or Western Europe. UK isn’t threatened, either. Watching the colonies go up in flames kind of sucks, but your Allies should protect those.
My thoughts almost exactly. The UK is within stricking distance of Germany, which is exciting. Germany rarely has a chance to strike at the UK homeland unless it gets to be a very long game. The Allies can help the UK out with the colonies. The UK can even afford to take some early losses among its colonies if the US can manage to limit them and take some of them back for the UK (assuming you’re playing that allied recaptures count toward the original country’s income).
I personally always put the newbie on the UK unless the newbie demands to play a particular country. It takes some convincing to let a newbie play Russia or Japan, I almost never give them Germany or the US, no matter their protests. They can learn those after playing a time or five.
