How to Counter UK SBRs

[Guest]

OK–need some advice from the experts, here.

An experienced German player will most likely destroy the UK Naval Fleet by T2 and from then on keep a strong Luftwaffe to destroy any new naval units that the UK builds.

Thus, in this situation, the UK will be contained on the island and most likely purchase fighters to reinforce various allied positions.

After a few turns, the UK has purchased a few infantry and maybe a bomber or 2 and begins continuous SBRs on Germany.

At this point Germany can’t do much about the UK’s bombers since a land invasion would sacrifice too many resources from the Russian and African fronts, AND the UK has enough infantry to sacrifice before removing the bombers as casulties.

Hence the Problem:
What can Germany do to Counter, Contain, or Prevent UK SBRs which eventually lead to Germany’s defeat???

Thanks

[cystic crypt]

Good question.
I’m curious. What kind of ally has no boats in the sea at the end of T2?
Still, if no boats, and only bombing runs, then you’re laughing. Really, you are better equiped to take Africa, keep Russia’s west busy, and even provoke trouble in the middle east. In the meantime, with an allied bombing strategy, Japan would largely be left alone. It might even consider running amuck in Europe, and with a defensive wall in EEU forcing a Russian-westward face, the Japanese should be able to put some pressure on Russia.
Also read some of the earlier posts on bombing runs. Most (except TG Moses) would contend that they are eventually a waste of time and money and resources. Also you should be exchanging IPC’s (give or take) as every 1 in 6 rounds you should be killing one, so look at this as a balance thingy. In the long run, the UK should be having enough bombers shot down to make bombing runs not worth it.

[Guest]

well, it’s not much of a concern unless they get heavy bombers. uk building air like that is not optimum play, if they do that, you should win!

[BigBlocky]

England is dead without a fleet. As stated elsewhere the brits could just save their money on round 1 and build a huge fleet on round 2 then have the americans move in their newly build atlantic fleet. Unless Germany has 8 or 9 fighters on round 2 I would think the new allied atlantic fleet is safe.

BB

[Guest]

Well, that’s just the thing–UK wasn’t dead without a naval fleet.
They continued to provide fighters to Karelia for defensive support on the Russian front. UK managed early-on to dump armor in Africa, and with continued support from the USA, managed to keep Germany out of Africa.

Thus, the UK continued to buy a bomber here and there and eventually had 7 bombers and 12 infantry. Although they had no navy, they were under no threat of invasion from Germany.

So the UK ran consistent 4-7 bomber SBRs which lead to a quick collapse of Germany.

I played the UK in this situation and was very successful. The reason I posted this question was that, although I am usually not too high on SBRs, this strategy worked well and now I am concerned that my fellow players will do the same to me (when I play Germany) and I’m not certain how to counter this strategy.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Guest]

Cystic Crypt had it correct when he stated that:

Also you should be exchanging IPC’s (give or take) as every 1 in 6 rounds you should be killing one, so look at this as a balance thingy. In the long run, the UK should be having enough bombers shot down to make bombing runs not worth it.

If you run the math on SBR’s you will find that this strategy is really an eye for an eye (unless you are doing better than odds). Thus, if you did better than odds, your success was based more on luck than on strategy. The Russians need troops – not just fighter support from the UK and USA to survive both the Germany and Japan onslaught in the later rounds.

I am not sure you are providing all of the details for us to completely help you. In a normal game play out, Germany wipes out all of the UK boats on turn 1. Thus leaving the UK without any boats in the Atlantic. If the UK does not buy any boats on UK’s first few turns, the only way it can get troops into Africa is from the guys in India (which will pave the way for Japan).

You mention that the US is dumping troops into Africa. This means that they must have a fleet, which, without capital ships should be very easy to wipe out by the Germans as well. So by the time the US buys enough capital ships to defend its transports and are able to ship enough guys over to Africa, you are looking at turn 4 or 5 at the earliest. At this point, Germany should be a monster and cashing out at 40 IPC’s per turn. That is more than enough to overwhelm Russia, even with UK fighter support.

After the first couple of turns, the UK is down to sub 20 for IPC’s and the Allies should be in major trouble. Especially if all they are buying is air. You are correct that the UK capital is safe due to the amount of infantry protecting the bombers. But at this point in the game, there is really no need to go after the UK because they are doing enough damage to the Allied cause by staying home.

[haxorboy]

I would think the best counter to this would be an increased push by Japan. If they end up toppling Russia and taking all of Europe while UK is busy bombing Germany, you would have a load of pain coming back your way in a hurry as Germany could start to build a navy as Japan started SBR’ing you from Russia while starting to stir things up in the Pacific. The US would be forced to begin defensive measures and if africa is controlled by a Japan at this point, the UK wouldn’t have a lot of wiggle room IPC wise…I think I might just have to play this out tonight and see what happens.

[Guest]

I agree with many of the posts here - SBRs are at best a saw-off; any damage the UK might do to Germany will be more than made up for by them losing bombers. UK simply cannot afford to do this for very long. SBRs are a bad strategy at any time except maybe the very late stages of the game - but honestly, any time I have played, something like a SBR near the end would only delay the inevitable.

But, the original post mentioned that the UK also had no navy by G2. This tells me that the UK player is inexperienced. My strategy is such that there is no way Germany can stop UK from having at least a Carrier and a few transports by UK2. Then you land a US FTR or two on the UK Carrier, and the British navy is here to stay. If Germany tried to take that fleet on - be my guest! - he would lose.

I think the post also mentioned the UK had landed ARM in AFR. Well, let’s see. If the UK has landed ARM there, it must have used a transport. But they can’t have one for long because they have no naval support to keep it. Again, only an inexperienced player would try these things - they can’t work. You MUST have a complete navy for UK as soon as possible, and of course that means you can’t be buying a load of bombers or fighters, or whatever else - it will cost UK the game.

[El Jefe]

Everyone else said it in long form so I’ll keep it short…

Let your opponent try to SBR you to death. The odds are even so if s/he rolls average or bad…you win! Just build lots of inf, maybe one tran for the Med and an arm unit any time you have 2 IPCs left over(exchange one inf.)

[wvfoos]

I haven’t read all the posts, but what about this.

I think in general, the ic in india is a waste. And the ic in SA, really can’t do as much as it really needs to do. IF you as the allies are going to muck around in africa you need shuck shucking in 6 or so infantry each turn. The two tanks you can crank out of sa, are really of not much consequence…

SO, uk doesn’t buy an ic on t1. It buys a carrier and a transport. And us flys its planes onto it on its turn. And if its still alive, on t1, us moves its transport into uk’s sz and dumps its 2 infantry in uk or it just moves empty and the 2 inf move to eastern canada. Basically its like moving the uk’s second turn in the essays up to its first turn.

Then the shuck can possibly begin in small amounts in t2, as opposed to t1. And if germany throws its airforce at the carrier in t2, you can be sure to whittle down some of those fighters and bombers, even if the carrier, 2 transports and the two fighters die.

Annnnnnnnnnd, if the carrier, two transports (1 uk (built in t1) and 1 us (original)) and fighters in the sz are gone after germanys t2, then uk buys ANOTHER carrier on t2, and RUSSIA flys its two planes (having been moved to karelia in russ t1) onto it. Then the us shuck can begin in earnest on the us t2 regardless of whether there’s any german airforce left.