Ok, I’ve been playing as the allies alot on the zone, and usually getting thumped. Thumped early (dice cheat is a serious suspicion - as the axis seem to get some amazing results from the get go, both G and J, but obviously can’t prove it), but i keep trying.

Here’s what usually happens. I play 3rd edition rules and RR.

Russia does its normal thing, sends pretty much everything into karelia, ships to uk seazone. In the east, they consolidate their forces (as much as can be consolidated and leave one man in soviet far east). Germany does the invade africa, takes AE/S with some added troops from s europe. Then they destroy all the things in the water they can reach with their airforce. Of course they buy 9-10 men and maybe a tank.

Uk buys a carrier and a tr, tries to finish off the german navy, if anyone left in persia, it goes to india, but india will get whacked by the japs.

Japan does the pearl harbor, and invades mainland with as much material as it can. Fighters are everywhere on the mainland. It pretty much takes china and india or weakens the one it doesn’t take to the point that next round, its gone, cuz neither us or uk can reinforce with enough stuff to make it hold. J buys like 2 transports and some inf.

US retaliates at PH, and takes care of whatever the japs had there. Usually losing its own pacfleet at the same time. Here’s big question. With germany in pretty much control of africa at the end of turn 1, should i do the shuck like this? On US1, just buy 4 transports (and one inf), giving me 5 total off eastern us at the end of the turn (not moving the one there to start with)? Even if germany has a bomber in w europe, i’ll take the 5 shots at a one versus germany’s one shot at a four. Fly my fighters to the uk carrier. Russia reinforces its stuff wherever it can, and attacks norway. On uk2, it builds transports and men to put in them. Any transports availiable at start of uk2 shucks uk men into norway. On us2, build enough men (7 new for a total of ten?) to fill the 5 transports so that i have ten inf available for shuck on us3. If enough $ left on us2 after purchasing inf, buy a fighter. On us3, buy another 10 men (if the $ is available, it should be)

In other words, is it better to wait, and shuck all 10 men at once straight from eastern us on us3 into norway to eventually make their way into karelia on us4? The ten inf bought on us3 can then move into e canada on us4. And get shucked on us5. So at the end of us5, there will be 20 us infantry in karelia and norway (10 each). So it looks like this…

us1 buy transports
us2 buy inf for a total of ten in eusa (maybe fighter, or replacement transports if Gbomber takes some us1 tr out)
us3 buy 10 inf (place in eusa), shuck 10 inf from eusa to norway
us4 buy 10 inf (place in eusa), move 10 eusa inf to ecanada, move us inf from norway to karelia
us5 buy 10 inf, shuck ecanada 10 inf to norway. Shuck is now set to do 10 us inf each round into europe/norway.

Is it better for 10 at once, or should it “ramp up” and buy a couple of transports and a couple of men each turn and work my way up to 5 tr?

There seems to be some discussion that pearl harbor is NOT an automatic play on J1.

Soooooooooo, lets say no pearl harbor occurs. That gives the allies another carrier and bs to protect the shuck. How about, the us carrier and bs go to the atlantic, and uk buys a carrier too, but sends it to the kareilia northern sz. This could take a few turns(3?), cuz you would’nt want to do it before the us carrier is in the uk sz to protect the uk transports. With the uk carrier in the karelia sz, there would be no danger for the russian transports.

Also, if germany has no navy, OR airforce, then no direct threat to russian transports would be there.

Again, i think its a serious gamble, but I could envision a couple of scenarios where it might be plausible. But as someone said, you’d hvae to be playing some real newbs or there must be some really funky die rolls (like the germans lose all their planes and navy on g1and uk1 - in which case, its prolly over anyway).

If they don’t do pearl, GREAT. Another carrier, bs, transport, plane and sub to go over and protect the shuck.

I’ve been playing alot lately (last couple of weeks - maybe a game a day or so online), all but one game as the allies.

And i haven’t encountered ANYONE who didn’t pearl harbor me… And usually, the pearl harbor completely decimates the uspacfleet, with seemingly little in the way of casualties on the jap side…

The only men i moved were those already east of moscow……And that one tank is already out there on the eastern edge to start with…

Really, the only thing that weren’t in karelia that would normally be on R2, are the fighters.

Oh, i know the one fighter v 3 transport was a huge gamble. But the way i had been playing the last few days (getting shellacked by the axis at every turn) i figured, I’m going to lose anyway, so wtf. That’s why with 2, it is a bit better odds.

I was just playing a game, and it always seems as if those russian fighters spend lots of time sitting on the ground in karelia. I understand they are there for defense, but in the first couple of turns, anyone who attacks karelia is going to lose anyway…… Do those extra 2 fighters really make that much difference early on??? I think depending on what japan does, they can be put to some real use in R2 in asia. Maybe its not a big deal to you really good players, but for a noob like me, it seems like its a decent attempt to really put the axis back a whole turn or two in asia.

The game i was playing was rr, 3rd ed. And this grew out of an attempt to defend yakut. I took all the available inf and the one tank that could make it to yakut on R1 (still leaving one guy in soviet far east). I think you can get like 6 inf and 1 armor there. I also flew one fighter there. (This may even be more effective if you use two.) That was enough to dissuade J from taking it on J1. But those fighters are needed in karelia? Well, the brits can fly their two fighters there on UK 1 anyway, and i don’t think you are out that much in the end from the allies POV.

Now, on J1, japan did the old Pearl harbor thing and had its carrier there. And just like any good jap player, they bought 2 transports and the rest inf. So they had three transports on japan sz.

So, on R2, i sent my ONE russian fighter from yakut, against the three transports. Now, the odds were not in my favor, but if you use TWO fighters, it might even be better. I gambled bigtime and got lucky and took out all three transports with the one fighter. But if you use two, you could concievably do it in two rounds of throwing dice. And if you lose both fighters while taking out all three transports, its an ipc wash, 24/24. BUT, more importantly, if you wipe out japan’s ability to ferry troops to the mainland (when they’ve already bought their J1 transports with that very goal in mind), then you can really hold off the pressure on russia from the east. And that might be enough to give the allies time to get control of africa.

And, as an added bonus, if nothing else, if after the first time you attack those transports, you still have airplanes available in yakut (i’m thinking you can even possibly buy a couple from the us or uk and base them there if you can continue to hold yakut), you will force Japan to keep its carrier and maybe even his battleship, in the jap sz. Or make him buy some subs or something. Whatever happens, if those transports go down on R2, japan is really behind the 8 ball.

I haven’t read all the posts, but what about this.

I think in general, the ic in india is a waste. And the ic in SA, really can’t do as much as it really needs to do. IF you as the allies are going to muck around in africa you need shuck shucking in 6 or so infantry each turn. The two tanks you can crank out of sa, are really of not much consequence…

SO, uk doesn’t buy an ic on t1. It buys a carrier and a transport. And us flys its planes onto it on its turn. And if its still alive, on t1, us moves its transport into uk’s sz and dumps its 2 infantry in uk or it just moves empty and the 2 inf move to eastern canada. Basically its like moving the uk’s second turn in the essays up to its first turn.

Then the shuck can possibly begin in small amounts in t2, as opposed to t1. And if germany throws its airforce at the carrier in t2, you can be sure to whittle down some of those fighters and bombers, even if the carrier, 2 transports and the two fighters die.

Annnnnnnnnnd, if the carrier, two transports (1 uk (built in t1) and 1 us (original)) and fighters in the sz are gone after germanys t2, then uk buys ANOTHER carrier on t2, and RUSSIA flys its two planes (having been moved to karelia in russ t1) onto it. Then the us shuck can begin in earnest on the us t2 regardless of whether there’s any german airforce left.

As someone who bought the pc version a couple months ago (but had played the original lots of times in college, many years ago) and just got into the online play, here’s my observatoin on the india ic.

I’ve played like maybe 5 games online total. Four times as the allies, once as the axis, all with russia restricted as the only added rule. As the axis, i played against a guy probably as noobified as me, and ended up taking russia with germany on a serious tank push after about 5 or so turns with just one tank left, and no possible counter attack from the russians, so it was a gamble that paid off. Not really what i guess you guys would call “good play” as i forced the attack, when i probably should have called it off after some strafing, cuz i lost my entire airforce as a sacrifce to take russia with my last land unit. He attacked me and opened up karelia early, and didn’t know much about dead zones. I know very little, about them as i just read dons essays for the first time a couple of days ago, but i knew more than opponent did. And that was clearly the difference in that game.

The other four games as the allies, however, haven’t ended so well. One guy attacked karelia early and when the attacked failed horribly, he just quit after g1. So that one really doesn’t figure into the mix.

The other three, i tried the india ic thing, and have gotten my ass handed to me every time. Japan buys a couple of transports, and can ferry in waaaaaaaay more inf than the brits can keep up with from the measley 3 unit limit on the ic. Now i will admit i didn’t read don’s essay closely enough to notice that on my last game, when egypt was taken on g1 with no losses to the g’s, i should have built the SA ic. But i didn’t. And got thrashed. I see why the india ic is clearly NOT the option in that case. But the others, were not “egypt falling on g1” scenarios. And japan STILL can unload way more fodder than the brit can possibly kill. And if they add in their jap planes and tanks, there’s no way that ic can hold, even for a few turns. And if it does, its at such a cost, that it negatively impacts uk’s ability to shore up karelia, which imo, is the bigger of the two needs for the allies. Meanwhile, germany is IPM’ing and builidng the odd tank here and there and massing in eastern europe.

My noob opinion? The india ic is a lost cause for uk against a mainland-minded japanese player. Whether egypt is taken on g1 or not really makes no difference.

I’ve got the basics of the shuck shuck down, i think. My question is how many transports should you eventually be using in the shuck shuck, both uk and us? I’ve gotten like 4 us and 2 uk, but i think that might be a bit light. Especially if i forgo the ic in india, uk could build a couple more. And maybe the us could go with 5 or so transports. Is this right? I figure with +/-30 ipc, the us can eventually manage 10 inf a turn, so 5 tr is right. With the uk down to about +/-25 that would be around 8 men. So is 4 tr for uk and 5 for us about what i should be using???