What do you think of it? Where are the moral grounds for the Bush Jr. government to “fight against tyranny” when they themselves prepare the ground for one (in the original greek sense of the word)?
Please expalin F_alk on how this is happening?? Or would happen.
The Patriot Act is what turned me off to President Bush. Why? Because it is a blank check to violate my rights. Its a rewrite of the constitution. The Patriot Act eliminates all accountability for law enforcement. There is no longer anyone to check up on, regulate, or draw the line on law enforcement agencies.
I don’t know much about the Patriot Act 2 past the name.
Then it is high time that you inform yourself!!
P.A. II will allow agencies to arrest people from wherever they are, without need to inform the family or anyone that this person was arrested etc.
Pretty much like the about 1000 muslims that were “vanished” and then reappeared, telling that they have been arrested, isolated etc. because they were suspected of terrorism… better look it up yourself.
There’s good aspects and bad aspects to the Patriot Act, as there is with ANY law…
D:S,
how ignorant can you be?
There was no good aspect in many laws done in germany after 1933.
Your defense of this faschitoid US laws is weak.
The possibilities that these laws give will be taken, and with that you give up anything that makes up a civilized, lawful society, and move towards a police state similar to the south american dictatorships.
There are good and bad things for everything included being killed. So there really is no point in saying that.
The patriot act was established becaused of 9/11…. obvioiusly. Yet 9/11 was caused by a failure to communicate between existing agencies. The patriot act doesn’t fix that very well. If you’ve pissed off at me, don’t punch somebody else. That’s what this bill does for the most part.
BB
The Patriot act was established as a result from the fear people had after 9/11.
Hey, anyone here who even remotely supports the Patriot Act:
You are in more danger driving in your car, crossing the street, smoking a cigarette, swimming in a pool, playing football, fishing, or walking on a street in NYC than you are from terrorism.
Yanny, how has the Patriot Act actually threatened your personal freedoms? Have you been violated in some way? How about some concrete examples to back up your argument? Pleeeeeease. :wink:
Yanny - Janus, incoming ban
Why, what’d he say?
@Deviant:Scripter:
Why, what’d he say?
Yanny did not post that - Janus did. Note it’s the only line. Janus is making fun of Yanny’s earlier warning in another topic.
wake up.
I support the P.A. 1 and 2. as far as im conscerned if you are loyal and a good law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about.
and if think i dont notice it *could lead to a Quasi Fascist US,
I say DAMN STRAIGHT!!!
i can see why people would not like it or support it, but it doesnt matter if you want it or not, its what going on wether you like it or not, like do you debate doing choirs when your parents tell you 2? for the most part off course not cus its sorta like a duty to accept.
i am sorta of a Hypocrite on the Parent issue, but i was looking for an example to state my opinion
I support the P.A. 1 and 2. as far as im conscerned if you are loyal and a good law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about.
and if think i dont notice it *could lead to a Quasi Fascist US,
I say DAMN STRAIGHT!!!
i can see why people would not like it or support it, but it doesnt matter if you want it or not, its what going on wether you like it or not, like do you debate doing choirs when your parents tell you 2? for the most part off course not cus its sorta like a duty to accept.
i am sorta of a Hypocrite on the Parent issue, but i was looking for an example to state my opinion
disagree.
When i was a child living with my parents, i lived in a totalitarian regime under people who i had to trust not only loved me but also “knew what was best for me” - or at least better than i knew (as i thought “rock fights” were a good idea at the time). My say had input only as far as whining would get me thrown into my room until i shut up.
The US has a government who is responsible to the American people in all issues who’s mandate is for the best interests of the people (but usually end up serving themselves or the country - not its people). At the same time, the politicians have a responsibility to keep their finger on the pulse of the nation - to determine what the people want and to figure out what’s best for them at the same time - a delicate balance.
I’d say you sound more like a Castro-ist. He has that fascist regime that you seem to appreciate. The PA does not seem very American in that it is not so much a respector of persons.
This is prolly just another difference between Canada and the US - the US looks to the good of the country and the idea of The US, Canada looks more to the individual people.
I agree wuth CC, I know what is good for me and fairly regularly I do just the opposite, because I want to!
I know that consuming alcohol is bad for me and could eventualy damage parts of my internal organs. That hasn’t stopped me from on occasion getting bombed out of my gourd.
That comment about “loyal and a good law abiding citizen” makes me nervous. Who determines what that is? Who will be determining that in ten years or twenty? I think every American needs to pause right now and take a look at our constitution. It was written by people who had reciently gained their freedom from a government controled by one man that made decisions for every one based on what he thought was best for them. Because every one knows that ignorant workers and farmers are too stupid to know what is good for them. :roll:
I think the comparison to 1930s Germany is a really good one. Those people gave up their rights for an idea they thought was right, the problem is if you give up your rights and the idea was wrong or changes it’s too late. :cry:
That comment about “loyal and a good law abiding citizen” makes me nervous. Who determines what that is? Who will be determining that in ten years or twenty? …
I think the comparison to 1930s Germany is a really good one. Those people gave up their rights for an idea they thought was right, the problem is if you give up your rights and the idea was wrong or changes it’s too late. :cry:
Exactly,
another point is that probably every person has done something “illegal”, no serious the “crime”.
The thing with P.A. is that you hand someone a weapon that he can use against you, even though he might promise not to do it. But then, he will retire some day and hand over the weapon to someone else, who maybe never promised anything.
Mike, maybe the next gov’t outlaws you, because you “misuse” your freedom of speech to promote a revolt against the country (by saying you don’t think democracy is the best)… and whooops you are the target, no matter how “loyal” or “patriotic” you feel yourself, the individuum is not the one to define these terms in the public (hence the name public) opinion.
Principiis obsta!
Try this irony on for size:
The “conservatives” in the U.S. have since 1980 squawked relentlessly about reducing government in our lives. Then comes 9/11 and now government can’t be big enough to suit them: bankrupt the economy with nonstop war, trash the various civil protections of the Constitution, spy on your neighbors, turn librarians into Big Brother recording machines, etc.
Not only city and town councils - - but even LOCAL POLICE departments – have made it known publicly that they will refuse to enforce the dictates of Patriot Act II (the resistance began to Patriot Act I; this new bill is more of the same, in spades). When your local cops start saying there are some new laws and procedures they will refuse to follow – pay attention!
cc, you are incisive with your comparison to Castro. The Bush-Ashcroft administration is paternalistic. Americans are asking themselves: Do we want big daddy to tell us what to do and not, say and not, where to go and not – or are we a nation of freedom-loving individuals, ready to defend our reasonably structured civil rights with the same dedication and heat that our ancestors applied to win those rights in the first place!
