Next Nation to sculpt at HBG

[Lunarwolf]

i  mentioned a list before of what would be nice to see in the next neutral set. but before that i think other actual nations sets need to be completed, such as the Brits and their commonwealth, japan, france, italy, ect ect… but i agree would love to see another neutral filling in the missing units.

[DrLarsen]

A sub would be nice for the neutrals, but doesn’t HBG’s set already have a tac?  As for larger ships, when you get past the major powers (assuming that you include France and Italy in “major powers”), no one else really had much worth noting; maybe an elderly stray dreadnought or two or perhaps coastal BB’s (which were basically like slow heavy cruisers, capability-wise), but probably a cruiser is adequate to approximate the actual combat capability of any minor power’s largest gun-oriented ships.  CV’s were pretty much unheard-of for the minor powers until the post-war period, when many bought or were given older US or UK ships.  (Even then, such elderly CV’s were, relatively speaking, more like the CVE’s of their day, capability-wise.)

[Lunarwolf]

i dont think theres a tac for neutrals yet but the next neutral set should have at least coastal battle ships

[Variable]

We have the Fokker TV which is a medium bomber that can be used as the tac. It’s about the same size as the OOB Mosquito.

[Lunarwolf]

some ideas for the next neutral set

Poland and Greece are some of the most important of the minor nations should be represented and adds diversity to the neutrals infantry

Polish infantry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_infantry_marching_-2_1939.jpg

A Greek infantry/ a generic partisan infantry can fit with many minor nations
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/508/eyzvnas4nm.jpg

I know everyone didnt like the Fokker Gi but it fits with the rest of the Fokker war planes in use already. it would fill in the role of Tac pieces perfectly

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1095&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=7eNsNf2LvSvAdM:&imgrefurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D437664%26page%3D2&docid=NMmaDVsR3F0oiM&imgurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D301300%2526stc%253D1%2526d%253D1315478169&w=1019&h=766&ei=2QMtT4_0HpDSiAKOua3aCg&zoom=1

Submarine: much needed especially when the dutch were known for there submarines in teh pacific
either the Dutch K XIV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_XIV_class_submarine
Or the Polish  Orzel class Sub
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzeł_(1938)

a coastal defense ship; would fill in HBGs Global 1939 perfectly. much needed piece for the game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Oden.jpg

Medium Tank:this piece is more of a reach for my wish list. giving people the option to use medium tanks for their neutral forces .
The Dutch used Marmon-Harrington MTLS-1GI4 medium tank in the pacific, it has a neutral looking feel to it, IMO it looks perfect for a neutral medium tank
http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/796/mtls_1g14.jpg
its the tank on the right

and another pic; http://www.overvalwagen.com/images/mhbiga4.jpg

the PZL p.24 fighter, the P.24 was used my a number of differnt nations through out the war, including Greece, Poland, Bulgaria,Romania, and Turkey. this piece is very unique looking and again was represent 2 of the most important minor of WW2, Greece and Poland

http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/2/Panstwowe PZL P24.htm

last is Polish Cavalry i know no one uses this piece… yet  but if there is going to be a 1936 game eventually this piece is going to be needed. plus it still works for the 1939 map
as the Polish and Greek still had some cavalry in there armies.

http://images.suite101.com/462917_com_polishlancers1936.jpg

[DrLarsen]

@Lunarwolf:

some ideas for the next neutral set
Poland and Greece are some of the most important of the minor nations should be represented and adds diversity to the neutrals infantry
Polish infantry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_infantry_marching_-2_1939.jpg
A Greek infantry/ a generic partisan infantry can fit with many minor nations
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/508/eyzvnas4nm.jpg
http://images.suite101.com/462917_com_polishlancers1936.jpg

The Polish infantryman is a good example of a good-looking modern uniform from a minor nation, but I’m not sure they’d have any relevance for non-polish armies.  The Greek soldier doesn’t look to me at all like a “generic” partisan.  I think I’d prefer a beret-wearing Frenchman, with, say, a sten gun, or perhaps a field-cap-wearing guy with a generic rifle.

I know everyone didnt like the Fokker Gi but it fits with the rest of the Fokker war planes in use already. it would fill in the role of Tac pieces perfectly
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1095&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=7eNsNf2LvSvAdM:&imgrefurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D437664%26page%3D2&docid=NMmaDVsR3F0oiM&imgurl=http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D301300%2526stc%253D1%2526d%253D1315478169&w=1019&h=766&ei=2QMtT4_0HpDSiAKOua3aCg&zoom=1
Submarine: much needed especially when the dutch were known for there submarines in teh pacific
either the Dutch K XIV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_XIV_class_submarine
Or the Polish  Orzel class Sub
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzeł_(1938)

I think the sub is a good idea in theory, but it would need some “house rule” changes to make sense in game terms, as most rules-sets, these days, give subs lousy defensive ratings to make room for destroyers as a type.

a coastal defense ship; would fill in HBGs Global 1939 perfectly. much needed piece for the game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Oden.jpg

Again, I like the idea of a coastal defense ship in theory; they were used by all of the Baltic powers at one time or other and by the Netherlands.  I think the Sverige class would be a better choice, as it was the most modern of its type, worthy of actually taking on ships of the WW2 generation, and some claim that it was a significant deterant for the Germans (though there is plenty of room for skepticism on that claim.)

[Lunarwolf]

Sverige class looks great also. but about the Greek soldier it also can pass as any other  Balkin infantry.

i would also disagree about the polish infantry only working for them. The Dains, the Czechoslovakians, and the Swedish would fit also with the polish infantry. Czechoslovakia will probably be included in the 1936 game

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MftBM30EqYU/Tgh-1SpN8RI/AAAAAAAAFA8/NFMfHHdK1e8/s1600/Denmark%2B-%2B1940%2BJan.%252C%2BDenmark%252C%2BPrivate%252C%2BJutland%2BDivision.jpg

http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/militariaphotos/militaria_images.asp?key=104

http://www.ww2incolor.com/other/BE085317.html

the idea about the subs needing special rules are you think it should be 1 atk and 2 def instead?

[DrLarsen]

i would also disagree about the polish infantry only working for them. The Dains, the Czechoslovakians, and the Swedish would fit also with the polish infantry. Czechoslovakia will probably be included in the 1936 game

Well, you may be right about the pre-39 Czechoslovaks and post-39 Slovaks.  I’m not so sure about the Danes.  As for the Swedes, I think that their M26 helmets have more of that “sallet-type” look characteristic of German helmets and so would be better served by a German in a different color than by a Pole in a different color, as would the Finns and Hungarians, whose helmets are pretty much the same as the “Stalhelm.”

the idea about the subs needing special rules are you think it should be 1 atk and 2 def instead?

Well, I’m not sure.  Maybe just for neutrals?  Or perhaps giving them a one-shot “sneak defense”?  The thing is, neutrals, obviously, have no need to attack, and so in game terms can’t make much use of attack-oriented pieces.  (This, btw, is why the Dutch bomber ought to be played as a tac, not as a regular bomber, since regular bombers are almost useless defenders.)  This is where the “scale” of the game comes into play, because in a game on such a large strategic scale, the differences between strategic attack and tactical attack as a part of a defense inevitably get muddied.

[DrLarsen]

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

[Asterios]

not sure what this is about but i’ll throw some names in the hat:

Australian Coast Watchers
Canadian Air Troopers
German Sub Pens
MacArthur Royal Palace (+ his personal plane B-17 Bataan)
Peenemunde
German Ski Patrol

any of these help or am i way off base?

[Variable]

@DrLarsen:

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

[DrLarsen]

@Variable:

@DrLarsen:

Yeah, looking at them again, I think I agree with you that the Fokker G.I. would have been a better choice than the Fokker T.V., as neutrals and minors need tacs more than regular bombers, and the G.I. is a cool-looking and interesting design.  But given that HBG made their TV Mosquito-sized, his T.V. works OK as a tac, so I’m thinking that adding another Fokker to the line-up is a low priority.

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

Thanks, yes I think that does help.  It looks to me as though the TV gives the neutral player the option to go either way, but the sizing does seem closer to tac than regular bomber.

I just got my order, btw, Coach and I’m impressed!  You really do great work!  One thought that I have off the top of my head at first glance: the axis minor’s “mustard yellow” and the neutral’s “yellow green” are so close to being the same color and yet… not quite.  For future color runs, I’d recomend either more contrast or no contrast; having them the same color allows for mixing and matching, having clearly different ones allows them to be clearly distinguished, but having them that close seems like an the “worst-case-scenerio” to me (color-wise, that is).

But that’s just meant to be “for future reference” constructive criticism.  Overall, examining all these new pieces has me almost giddy with all the possibilities!

[Yavid]

@Variable:

Hopefully this pic helps the discussion here. Brit Mosquito and Halifax next to ivory Fokker TV.

i don’t know if it helps the conversation but it did make up my mind. I’m going to use ivory for my pro-allied neutrals, light grey for pro-axis, white for strict neutrals, orange for mongalians. I would like to ask are you ever going to sell the neutrals in individual units? I just want 14 white inf., 4 ivory, 3 light grey and 4 orange oh and maybe 5 yellowish green artillery for china.

[Variable]

Eventually? Yes. However, not likely before the Russian set comes out. Right now, they are still the “latest and greatest” set from HBG.

[knp7765]

Are the Russians still planned for a June 30 release? Sure am looking forward to those sets.

[Variable]

It’s looking like it will be a bit behind. Similar to what happened with the Italian Brown Minors, Coach was not happy with the color match to oob Russians. So he told them to do it again. We’d rather it match well than rush it out. They are usually very fast at fixing their errors. I should have more info in a few days.

[Yavid]

can i make a suggestion for the future?

Now you can take this with a gain of salt if you like but don’t give a release date until you’re 95% you’ll make the date. It’s frusrating as a customer to hear about delays and it must be frustrating on your end to hear the same question of when when when all the time. Speak in vague statements like mid-summer, early next year, in time for X-mas. Once you get to a point your sure you can make a date, set the date and do an announcement. Telling us every peice that will be in the set, all the colors it will be done it and the date it will be availible. Until the annoucement stick to the “We are working on a French set it, It should be out early winter in time for x-mas. We would like your input on what to include.” It will help generate buzz about the set’s release and as we get closer to the day build antipation. Knowing that there will be no delay.

[Variable]

Sorry if there was any confusion on the date. The HBG site says it’s a “target date” which seemed vague enough to describe when to expect it. We try to give an actual date as a target so everyone knows when to check in on the set and roughly when to expect it to be available. Sometimes it can be delayed by color issues or additional sculpt mark-ups. But it usually has fallen within a few weeks of the target date as the factory has been very reliable overall. We add a pre-order option when a delivery date is known for sure so you can get a bit of a deal on the set and know exactly when to expect your pieces. However, thank you for your suggestions.

[Yavid]

I hope you realize that it was 100% meant to be helpful

[Variable]

@Yavid:

I hope you realize that it was 100% meant to be helpful

For sure! On the contrary, I’m happy you pointed it out. I simply didn’t realize that people were banking on the date since no pre-order had be done yet. No worries! We’re always looking for ways to improve. If that means changing the wording on our site helps, I have no problem doing that. It’s actually a good time to catch me since I’m going through some other stuff on the site too. Thanks Yavid!