I can offer a really useful and detailed response for classic (2nd ed.), but I haven’t played First Edition. Are the two similar enough that a 2nd edition example would be helpful?
What is so bad about taking Karelia in the first turn(s)?
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As I posted somewhere else, I sometimes like to pull out of Karelia with Russia (place one inf there at end of turn) and Stack the Caucasus instead.
It throws some people off.
What would you people do if you encounter that scenario?
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Take Karelia (maybe with forces from Norway). This prevents Russians from building there next turn.
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works out great for russia if germany actually tries to keep it, but a reasonably smart germany wont actually plan on holding it. a smart germany will take it, and non combat his tanks from norway. this is really a trap manuver to try and sucker germany into committing a large concentration of troops into a killing ground. heh, have suckered lots of newbies, and a few arrogant experienced players with this one.
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Yeah, don’t get greedy with Germany. Attack Karelia with 3 inf from Norway and non-combat that ARM out of there. By forcing Russia to retake Karelia, you delay them enough to ready defenses across Eastern Europe and maybe hold Ukraine for an extra turn.
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usually when i do the russian pull back, i have all russia’s tanks in novabrisk. if germany puts a large force in kar, i take it out, if they dont, i take the tanks to japan.
the pull back allows you to keep nearly all your units, and forces the germans to really think about what they wanna do. by pulling back, it allows you to gain a position where you have 4 tanks and 2 planes that can reach nearly any potential targets of opertunity. like the time i did this and the japs had left just 2 troops to guard 3 planes and a factory in manchuria. hit em with 4 tanks 2 fighters, and 5 troops, eliminating them pesky fighters, and delaying them using the factory.
the real reason it worked long term was because i had a friendly britain sending me fighters for defence, while amerca was doing the flotilla thing. doesnt work quite so well when your allies are uncoordinated.overall, not the most effective tactic, but fun and works under certain cuircumstances. i even won a turnament with it once. the german guy was normally pretty good, but he was “convinced” that i was a noob, and fell for it hook, line and sinker. psychology in a game can be fun :)
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Yes, almost every competitive game I played has a deeper metagame.
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I’m not neccessarily saying that Germany should take Karelia, but they should threaten it at least, for two reasons, 1 to drain IPCs via hit and runs, 2 to pin down IPCs defending Karelia (and not attacking Japan or the Ukraine)
If Russia well stocks Karelia (Russia restricted) and Germany only takes it with like two tanks, than it doesn’t matter because the british can’t counter attack for 2-4 turnsand the Russians are exhausted. In a turn or two, when the Japanese knock on Moscow, the Russians have almost nothing left.
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I don’t mind letting USSR keep Karelia, because after Japan is done, that’s all their gonna have. 8)
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One thing not considered so far is what Germany is really to do in the east. I feel they have to engage the russians at some point or else the soviets will simply stack infantry. After three turns of eight infantry per turn that’s around 30. This will impossible for Germany to overcome also US and UK will be entering the fray at this point.
Japan should be close to Moscow by now but will still have a hard time taking it.
Unless you’re aiming for an IPC victory i really think that Germany has to hit Russia but also not overextend their all too crucial armor, it’s delicate balance -
I dont know about what you said as Japan. As Japan, I like to have at leas 2, if not 3, factories on mainland Asia. One on Yakut, one on India, and one on Indo-China. This lets Japan move 8 infantry a turn to threaten Moscow. That forces Russia to remove a lot of forces to the east. I only do this once I have Novosibirsk and usually Evenki or Kazakh. Russia is barely holding onto the skin of its teeth by then and has to funnel forces ot the east to counter the Japanese stack. This eventually weaken Karelia enough to even the odds for a German invasion of Karelia.
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I would probably suggest going against building an IC in Yakrut for Japan. It’s much more economical to just buy two transports instead. Usually when I set up an IC (India or Burma, maybe for both), it’s to produce ARM and not inf. I think that 6 ARM should be more than enough (if you factor in supporting inf) per Japan once it hits critical mass.
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