Where the heck are Germany's vaunted U-Boats?

[Ozone27]

Been playing quite a long time now and have yet to see a sizeable German fleet of subs in the Atlantic. On the surface it makes sense to build subs–they are relatively cheap, highly effective against Transports and reasonably survivable (utilizing their 1st shot and withdrawal/submerging qualities). But Germany never seems to have enough money to buy wolf packs to prowl the Atlantic, and when they do buy something expensive, it’s usually a fighter? I am speaking as a long-time Germany fan–I NEVER build more than a sub or 2 in a game and the ones I do buy typically go to waste. Has anyone here EVER been able to build a submarine fleet as Germany in an actual game?

Ozone27

[bossk]

hmmm, that might be an interesting approch. Perhaps one could buy some infanrty and a sub on nearly every turn; this would allow for a somewhat reduced offensive against the USSR (using Germany’s existing tanks and planes) while making life quite difficult for the Americans and British. I wonder if it would work very well.

[TG Moses VI]

The only problem is that a strafing run from planes, especially from UK, can devastate a sub force. Since all Germany can muster is 1 trans. and 1 BB 9which are usually used to reinforce Africa, the defense capabilities against planes can be pretty low.

[bossk]

Indeed, the threat of an airforce would be somewhat troublesome, at least untill Germany could get enough to absorb the attack before retreating.

[Guest]

IN THE WAR, IN HISTORY, GERMANY HAD A PRETTY GOOD “WOLF PACK”, WHICH IS NOT REPRESENTED WELL IN THIS GAME (ESPECIALLY IN 1942).

IF THE RUSSIAN PLAYER DOESN’T PLAY REAL WELL AND THE U.S. GOES AFTER JAPAN, I COULD SEE BUILDING A SUB FLEET IN THE MED WITH THE BATTLE SHIP AND TROOP CARR, BUY, LET’S SAY 1 SUB EVERY TWO ROUNDS, (IT WAS MENTION BEFORE) IT WOULD SLOW GERMANY OFFENSIVELY IN AFRICA AND RUSSIA. ALSO, I WOULD MAKE SURE THE ENTIRE BRITISH FLEET WAS DESTROYED(OF COURSE), BEFORE HAND.

[Yanny]

Caps lock off please :lol:

Problem is, after you build the subs, they are quickly destroyed by British and American Airforce. And also, keep in mind the 2 subs Germany starts off with actually represents quite a few subs, maybe 50. When allies cracked the german naval code, they were able to reduce Germany’s subs to mostly fodder for it’s transport fleet.

---

“History is just a set of lies agreed upon”

• Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte

“Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference”

• Robert Frost

[ This Message was edited by: Yanny on 2002-02-08 05:56 ]

[Guest]

sorry about the caps, I agree that it isn’t a sound strategy, it’s not something I would do, but if there were any place to build subs, the med would be it.

As far as how many subs the German’s had, I believe hundreds, in the begining of the war up to about 1942. They were most effective against allied shipping until late in the war starting around 1943, when the British cracked the German code. After that, many German submarines were destroyed by British destroyers which by then were escorting most shipping vessels. It’s been awhile since I studied history(several years ago), but I think how it was.

[Mr Ghoul]

Canadian Corvettes were the mad sub hunters

[Guest]

A kinship to reality is always loved when simulating (as in this game) but some level of reality has to be sacrificed, such as the japanese’ ability to push westward, german subs, etc. in order to make it a playable game. There’s very little in the way of german subs but it was probably neccesary in order to work out the naval strategical problems during game creation.

[TG Moses VI]

The only way for a sub force to survive British planes are to come up with new rules regarding Subs.

[Guest]

I’ve found U-boats pretty hopeless. They are cheap and are a tempting way to try and tackle the ridiculous and relentless building of the Allied Transport armada in the North Sea (that huge bridge across the Norway and W.Europe undermines every game I play!).

My U-boats however seem to be wiped out by the RAF before they’ve undone the packaging from their shiny new torpedo tubes! What use are subs? When to buy them? Where to deploy them?

[Guest]

Actual I think that Subs, could be alllow to have a dice roll (success 1-3) to submerge before a airforce only strike!

This would give them a little more play value!

Jondifool

[Guest]

That’s one solution which occured to me - or perhaps you could roll for intiative - sub requiring a ‘4’ to dive first. Another fix would be to limit the massive transporter bridging possibilities by either making transporters harder to aquire, or else unable to unload and load in the same round. Otherwise you have virtually no chance of sinking a fully laden tranny. Transporters play too big a role.

[HortenFlyingWing]

Germany is not a fleet builder. They have to take our russia first, and in the meantime, they should build a complex in egypt. the fleet is kind of useless. by the time an attack for GB is ready, germany will have the aircraft to detsroy GB’s fleet, and then build up.

but then again, germany is my worst country!

[Yanny]

Subs in AAE have a much higher survivability rate. Because to attack a sub, a destroyer must be present.

If there were Destroyers in AA, Germany might actually see a large sub fleet.

Also, the game starts in Spring 1942. By then, many German subs were destroyed.

[HortenFlyingWing]

germany’s sub fleet hit its peak in 43.

[TG Moses VI]

I think I like the idea of subs rolling to submerge against aircraft can be pretty niffty. Do you have to roll once or for each aircraft present?

[Mr Ghoul]

isnt there a 3rd edition rule book that has submerging subs? If aircraft alone attack subs they have only one round of combat. So, after all the aircraft have attacked the remaining subs submerge and remain in the
same sea zone, like AAE.

[Usul513]

In the AandA 3rd edition, subs cannot submerge but may flee instead. In AAE subs cannot flee but can submerge.

[mini_phreek]

if you are winning in africa and the middle east you can build a sub fleet in the meditranion,the RAF has no place to land.