@panther I did not know this, thank you
How to play Japan!?
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I don’t know for sure, but I feel like any strong aversions to my post are from players who play many more games, and/or do lots of theory gaming, and/or play a lot of online A&A. I do none of those. I play a regular game with very good opponents every 3 weeks for real in person. I have tried this in a real life game 3 times and it has worked all three times, but all 3 times it has been against a different real life player as India. I find that if I played against Noll dozens of times on TripleA or something he would beat this as i just told him what I’d be doing, not to say he wouldn’t if I didn’t tell him.
BUT this strats strength and weakness comes from many more variables and contexts than I think Null is looking at. I feel as though he’s looking just at the battle in India and bad or worst case scenarios. If you take the whole game Global1940 mind you, not just Pacific, then all the players behave in certain ways, especially in games with 4+ players. Again, in a real world game, that you play with live opponents, who may have driven over an hour to get a game in and likely all have a new strat to try out based on performance in their last game… So with that in mind you have to think about what the allied players and the UK player especially is thinking. Most of the time they are thinking (in our group at least) that they will fly their air over to Egypt. Move at least 1 land unit through the middle east to activate Persia and (our group) attack Iraq before the Italians ever get a chance to activate it. Then they send their one transport to slowly take DEI with ANZAC and then start a Infantry Push Mechanic of some kind one territory at a time up the Burma Road. Not all players do this, but many do, their larger focus being on Europe where in previous versions of Alpha London often fell, Egypt was important and Japan usually has players that play more conservative so a Calcutta crush is often later than Moscow… They tend to take it slow.
Also a lot of UK players don’t like the idea of starting the war in the Pacific, especially not on UK1 or UK2. If they do it might be a wrinkle, but if they don’t you’re still green. Then there’s losing Yunnan on turn 2. This can happen, but usually you are crushing China to the point where they cannot do it, and only a UK2 DoW on Japan can accomplish this. And if they do, thats a whole stack less that can retake India if you do pull it off.
As for the US concern, They can be a worry… However they’re not in a position to actually TAKE Japan. with only a handful loaded transports and maybe 6 planes they likely wont be able to crack that nut. You will have all of your starting land units minus 2 plus any builds. I recommend a few planes as the first 3 turns go by. Hopefully by you J4 purchase you’ll have India’s money as well as yours, that should deter or repel any US4 invasion of Japan. But what the US does is highly dependent on the game, the player, and all manner of other events unfolding, to predict their behavior game to game is not really possible, so just react to what they do, with the Destroyers and Subs hanging back for rear-guard action and any builds in Japan and the mainland, along with some clever gameplay, and you should have the tools to keep the US at bay.
And as for India having all planes and all of their builds on India in UK3, I doubt it will happen often. At least in my experience (which is not the thousands of simulated games that many folks have around again!). I find that in a global context, what is happening in Europe far outweighs what’s going on in the Pacific in terms of attention and importance. The Allies main concerns are there and this strat, no matter how successful it is will be worthless if Germany is doing poorly.
And finally, if things do go bust, and I’m playing against say, Noll, and he’s playing the best 2 turns of his life with UK and thwarting me at every step, and making taking India a near impossibility, then not all is lost! If things seem impossible from J2, don’t move to India, instead play a normal game where you plod around the Pacific doing what ever it is most Japanese players do. You’re still in an excellent position from SZ36 to either threaten multiple key targets, or relocate anywhere you want (you are within 3 of the India, DEI, Carolines, the Philippines, and Japan). If it seems you are off of India and all the sudden its stacked to the heavens with defense units, then you still have options. You can head back the way you came, taking the DEI and Malaya, you can go the other way and throw your opponents for a huge loop when you land in the middle east and build factories there, or go straight to Egypt and prepare to make the UK’s Mediterranean plans go down the tubes. With the Japanese fleet plying the Med and Indian oceans the Japanese player can be a serious threat even if everything else when haywire and you lose your capital, you still control a powerful fleet that is in a place where the allies are weak. Also, in Noll’s worst case scenario, the UK is just sitting in India twiddling its thumbs with nearly 100% of its starting resources and subsequent builds. That’s GREAT for the Axis! You’ve effectively checked India. While you aren’t taking the place, they aren’t doing anything with it either. Meanwhile if the US is going pacific heavy you already won! Even if they eventually clobber Japan it doesn’t matter, ever last IPC that the US drops into the Pacific Ocean is a godsend for the Germany and the Axis overall.
I would posit this based on my experience with this game, and with playing Japan. The game of global is really just playing Europe with an interesting side story. The Pacific board doesn’t really matter. Japan’s job isn’t to win, its to pull as many Allied IPC’s onto the pacific board as it can to make Germany’s life easier on the real board. If the allies totally ignore you then you can help the Euro Axis eat away at Russia and maybe even get your 6/8 VC’s for a surprise victory, but you won’t. Its the Allies job to spend exactly enough IPC’s to prevent Japan from taking 6VC’s and not a penny more, and moving the rest to the Euro board, and its Japans job to pose a big enough threat to fool the allies into spending that penny more, and then some. So measure Japan’s success not in how many capitols or VC’s you capture, but in how many IPC’s you make the Allies waste by putting them on your half of the world.
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And Clyde, you Ninja’d me. Thanks for the kind words and I also like your take on it too. Its like I was saying originally. Other than moving your fleet to SZ36 and the planes down to Kwangsi, the rest is salt to taste. It should be a bit more reactionary and can be anything you like to do and think would best thwart the Allies whilst shoring up your own position. I think the transports vs IC is just two sides of the same coin so we’re really on the same page :-D
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I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.
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I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.
I agree with the battle-methodic that you mention here but I wonder, as Im assuming the player who started this thread is, what do you consider “playing correctly” as Japan is?
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I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.
Well, taking out an opponent is certainly an edge to victory!
I think by this move, you can either create to opportunity to take out India or make him turtle… either way, its good for Axis. I use to send Carriers with planes to z31 just to have USA stay put in z10. But what ZehKaiser suggest here seems way better.The only thing : I didn’t study Alpha3 map yet… but with Alpha2, I’m certainly interested to see this tactic in a game!
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Hi ZehKaiser, thanks for the detailed answer. My counter-opinion of this early India crush were made because I’m interested in it, meaning I like what you’re doing.
As for me I often park my fleet in sz36 J1, but I hare rarely put a naval base there.
I guess this is a great move against a careless India, punishing him for devoting too much on the Europe board (Ethiopia attack, Iraq, planes etc…), and as BBB said, it will work GREAT even in the situation of India turtling.I play tons of face to face myself too, and my India opponents usually likes to play conservative unfortunately.
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I’ve never played online, just face to face games. 4 regular players (including myself) and 2 people that make it when they can. We play every other weekend.
The China moves are standard openers in my opinion, the Naval Base is an excellent idea, but I think going right towards India wouldn’t work in my group. Not as a Turn 3 goal anyway. Generally India’s planes stay on mainland Asia to help push the IJA and the Navy stays to block/harass/attack depending on whatever the IJN seems to be up to. More often than not it revolves around protecting the Dutch territories and containing them as much as possible. As the UK I don’t plan on declaring war on Japan, but if I see an appealing opening I don’t mind taking it.
‘Surprise’ attacks like these are rarely successful, as long as your watching the board and noting the potential moves of your opponents I’m not sure how India can be surprised with the assault.
But just because it wouldn’t be likely to work with us doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work at all, it’s just my read of it and how myself and the others would likely react. -
I’ve read the strat outlined by ZehKaiser, and there is nothing new there. This strat has already been mentioned numerous time here. In fact, at least one time for each version (OOB, Alpha +1 and +2).
This strat was a killer in OOB Pacific, and is an interesting Gamble in the Alpha versions.
Fact is: anytime a NB is build on J1 in Hainan(and transports in sz36 of course), India, as a reflex, is watching closely at those moves. The India crush is not going to be a surprise for any decent player.
Ind will take Sum with 2inf from Mal and Cpr with a tnk from Alx via tr sz98, for a maximum defense in India on UK2.So in the end, you have a battle looking like this:
Attacker= 6 land units + 12-13 planes (AAgun will shot 2 planes in Alpha2, and 1 plane in Alpha3 according to odds).
Defender= 25-26 land units + 3planes
There is no way India will fall without big losses for Japan, and on any good defense or poor attack rolls, India will hold.
This is a strat for gamblers. I wouldn’t play it in a tournament, but why not once in a while in friendly games. -
I agree that if you play at a level where you’re playing tournaments or lots of play by email games then you’re at a level where this might not work, but I think that even if you don’t take India on J3 moving to SZ36 and putting a NB there is a good idea for J1. It just gives you many options. I’m sure a crafty opponent wouldn’t fall for this a lot. BUT if you’re playing friendlies occasionally, (as I assumed MightyPol was when I posted based on his original post) then this strat or variations of it can be very effective. I feel as though all of these India defenses that people are bringing up are out of the greater context of an actual global game. I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.
Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.
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I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.
Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.
Of course the defenses proposed here are responses to knowing what’s coming, that’s why this is all theory, and not practice.
Your strategy works incredibly well against people who abandon the Pacific in favor of a more powerful Mediterranean, and it wouldn’t work (at least not as well) on those that don’t. The way I play the UK you would have a much more difficult fight in India once you arrived (if you chose to commit to the attack). J1 doesn’t give your strategy away, but the end of J2 does. It’s about reading the map and seeing what all your opponents attack options will be for the next round. So because I choose to play in both theaters instead of just 1 it’s unlikely that by the time I was able to see the potential threat that I wouldn’t be able to get most of my planes and navy back to either deter the attack or inflict as much damage on you as I could.
The risk with the strategy is that it can be pretty much an all in, it’s either a huge pay off or a really rough rest of the game. If Japan takes too many losses than when the US comes to the party they set the beat and you dance to the tune. -
I agree that if you play at a level where you’re playing tournaments or lots of play by email games then you’re at a level where this might not work,
Doesn’t mean anything : there are some bad players also in Pbem and tournament games.
It is just about being experienced.
but I think that even if you don’t take India on J3 moving to SZ36 and putting a NB there is a good idea for J1. It just gives you many options.
Never said it wasn’t a good idea. Actually, it is this J1 NB purchase that creates the J3 India Crush threat, which is very serious. Also, it’s always interesting to be able to reach sz6 from sz36. I’ve build NB in Hai several times (but i personally prefer J2 for that).
I’m sure a crafty opponent wouldn’t fall for this a lot. BUT if you’re playing friendlies occasionally, (as I assumed MightyPol was when I posted based on his original post) then this strat or variations of it can be very effective. I feel as though all of these India defenses that people are bringing up are out of the greater context of an actual global game. I feel like they are defenses that are possible to theorize when you know exactly what’s coming because I just brought it up to you, but that in an actual game wehre you didn’t announce ahead of time that you’re going for a J3 crush that no actual real life opponent would do half that. And if they did then you have other benefits, like a weak egypt.
Again, you seem to make a big difference between a “normal real life player” and internet players…It’s just about how experienced and skilled a player is. Of course, someone who play a lot on internet gets to play with a lot of different people, which is very good to get experience. When you only get to play everytime with the same 4-6 players in real life, it might be more difficult to discover all the best strats and counter.
Also, if by me simply putting my fleet on SZ36 in J1 is such an obvious J3 India crush to so many of A&A players than its even better. Then you can easily fool an opponent. Axisplaya, if you would stack exactly what you said on India based simply on me moving to sz36 on J1 then you would be easier to feint than anybody else since you are so sure I’d attack India. It’d be easy to hit the allies somewhere else while you sit on India with 2 turns of builds and most of your starting units.
Err….What about playing a game with me ? Then you’ll find out if i am so easy to feint…
I just said that for an experienced player, a fleet + transports in sz36 + J1 NB build on Hainan = emphasis on India Defense.
The only move i mentioned in my previous post that i might not do in the situation described is the tnk from Alx to Cpr, because this move depends on what Germany has done on G1 (saving UK is more important than saving India).
All the rest of units i mentioned would be in india for sure. And i don’t care if my UK units are turtling in India. From sz36 you are not going to surprise me with any move, believe me.Just chill out man. My previous post wasn’t mean to critisize your idea. And whatever happens after your J1, the NB is not a waste of IPCs, you can use it for India Crush or for other interesting moves if you see that your oponent reacts well to it.
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. From sz36 you are not going to surprise me with any move, believe me.
Any player that doesn’t notice a fleet (with transports) withing range of their capitol, or such a NB being built, is sleeping (and it’s not that India has so much to do)
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alright clyde if you want to know what a good strat for japan is I will tell you what my japan is sitting out right now in a global game I am playing via pbem. Player hasn’t responded in over a week so I think it’s a wash. On Japan turn 5 I have 6 subs 1 transport 1 destroyer in sea zone 6. 2 infantry 1 fighter in japan. 8 infantry in manchuria. 2 infantry in korea. IC in kiangsu I purchased on the first turn with 2 mechs and a tank. 6 inf 1 art in kazakhstan. China is totally whipped out. I havent played a game yet where I didn’t kill china by turn 4 of japan. This might be because of poor play by the allies. I recommend on turn 1 sending 15 planes to kwangsi. 2 carriers to sea zone 36. Making a total of 19 planes china has to deal with in the event he makes a mistake. This also allows for an early attack on UK and anzac because of everywhere your planes can reach. Back to my unit totals. I have 1 carrier 5 DD’s 8 subs in sea zone 35 with 2 fighters on phillipines. (BTW all my carriers have 1 fighter 1 tac on them). 1 transport in sea zone 36. 4 transports 2 cruisers 2 battleships 3 carriers in sea zone 37. 1 sub in sea zone 39. UK has 14 units left in pacific and is making 4 dollars a turn after convoy raiding. I have 9 ground units in french indo china. 3 in yunan 2 in szechwan and 2 in kwangsi. Along with 7 planes in szechwan and 6 planes on my carriers in sea zone 37. Play methodically. Look for weak points in allies play. No need to bun rush when japan has the advantage for the first 5-7 turns in numbers. If US doesn’t put 100% in pacific then this is even better for japan. Build a ton of fleet. I recommend only building 3 ground units a turn with japan. THese are to be placed in your factory bought turn 1 in kiangsu. I recommend these 3 units to be mechs. If you can spare the extra 2 dollars build tanks. All in all when building ships buy almost soley subs. They are cheap and fodder units. Japan starts off with a huge amount of heavy hitting units. Only build a carrier with japan if absolutley necessary. I consider necessary to hold sea zone 6. All in all I don’t think japan should have more than 5 carriers at one time since 1 carrier equals 4 planes if used properly. so that would mean 5 carriers equals 20 planes. This is already 1 more than japan has to start with since bombers don’t count. This is my brief recommendation for Japan.
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alright clyde if you want to know what a good strat for japan is I will tell you what my japan is sitting out right now
……um ok, dont know why this is directed at me, im not the one who asked “How to play Japan!?” I have my own way of playing Japan. This post is for the benifit whom ever started the thread and wanted to know. A blanket statment of “Play correctly” dosnt really teach the enquiering player anything, nor give him your unique perspective on playing Japan that he could possibly take away from reading here and apply to his own games. He might find something from your play style that works well for him and improve his overall enjoyment of playing the game.
Also, and this is really just a minor thing, but posting about where you got a country to really dosnt mean anything unless you tell people how you got them there, how their enemies responded, how you countered, how you spent your IPC, ect. Without this context its like telling someone about the best sandwhich you ever made and then handing them two slices of bread to re-make it with.
@theROCmonster:IC in kiangsu I purchased on the first turn with 2 mechs and a tank. I recommend on turn 1 sending 15 planes to kwangsi. 2 carriers to sea zone 36. Making a total of 19 planes china has to deal with in the event he makes a mistake. Look for weak points in allies play. No need to bun rush when japan has the advantage for the first 5-7 turns in numbers. If US doesn’t put 100% in pacific then this is even better for japan. Build a ton of fleet. I recommend only building 3 ground units a turn with japan. THese are to be placed in your factory bought turn 1 in kiangsu. I recommend these 3 units to be mechs. If you can spare the extra 2 dollars build tanks. All in all when building ships buy almost soley subs. They are cheap and fodder units. Japan starts off with a huge amount of heavy hitting units. Only build a carrier with japan if absolutley necessary. I consider necessary to hold sea zone 6. All in all I don’t think japan should have more than 5 carriers at one time since 1 carrier equals 4 planes if used properly. so that would mean 5 carriers equals 20 planes. This is already 1 more than japan has to start with since bombers don’t count. This is my brief recommendation for Japan.
Which is totally what you do here, so good job and great ideas :-)
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I will go over the purhcases and how I would counter each move. Turn 1 I always buy 1 IC and 2 transports. Place IC in Kiangsu ( I do this so that the mech infantry I produce on turn 2 can attack kwangtung, leaving my transports to attack all 5 of the major islands I need to take). Turn 2 depends on where UK moved his units and where Russia put his 18 inf and 2 aa guns. If russia put them on the boarder in amur T2 then I try to keep a transport or two in range of sea zone 6 so I can offload into korea. I recommend as japan if russia puts units in amur keep manchuria open and defend korea. Japan goes after russia so china will never see those 3 IPC’s. On turn 2 usually japan has 40 dollars so I build 3 mechs, for the factory in kiangsu, 2 subs 2 destroyers. Since US has only had 1 turn of build you really can’t look at what US is doing yet since he can at any time move his naval units from atlantic to pacific. T3 with japan I have yet to attack UK and I am probably made 42-44 last turn. Since I like to attack UK and Anzac on Japan T3 I have all my transports set up to take out all the islands. I buy 3 mecs and all the rest subs and 1 destroyer from here on out. I like to continue building only 3 ground units and all sea besides that keeping subs as the majority buy for the sea. Hope this helps a little more.
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The great thing about this game is the replay ability of it. I have found that each game is different games flow and strategies change depending what your opponet does. In you 2 post and with your explanation of your purchases, I think you give a very good idea of how to approach playing Japan. Great post!
Thantonous
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does anyone have a question on how to counter a certain play from the allies on the pacific side?
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does anyone have a question on how to counter a certain play from the allies on the pacific side?
The only “Pacific Alliance strategy” I ever heard of is a “All Pacific US”… which is a fail IMO. I easily demonstrated it was a very, very bad idea for USA to put all his money in Pacific.
Do you have an Alliance strategy to discuss about?
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Honestly the allies I believe have a much harder time getting down the “perfect strat”. Not saying my axis strat is perfect by any means but the allies have so much to do… What do you normally have problems with on the european board bruce? I see that russia falls everytime no matter what, and I totally agree with that, but since the axis still need cairo it might be a long game to see if japan would fall before cairo or UK…
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so far I haven’t found a counter to the way I play the axis. I have played myself and the axis seem to be winning a lot more. What I like to do with russia is retreat the 18 infantry from the start back to moscow. This does two things. 1. protects stallingrad and the underbelly of russia from japan. 2. more men on moscow for defense. As UK I go 100% against italy until I knock out their fleet completly and am pumping units into greece and that area from my factory I have in egypt. With America I like to have 4 transports in the atlantic. UK can protect these with his ships. The rest I put into the pacific. Interesting game in that even is moscow falls the european board can still be even if Italy is gone and the allies are pumping loads of units into the south of germany. I think America is by far the hardest country to play as. Play them wrong game is lost. Play them right game might be won. Problem with america not building at least 90% for pacific I see is that japan will have the edge in naval power for at least 8 turns. This just becomes a nightmare because by then UK India has fallen for sure and china is dead and russia is having some serious problems in his backside. Not to mention Japan will be making close to 80 dollars… Allies are tough and I think it will take 50 games of play before I figure out a good way to play them.
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