Delayed Italian and Ottoman Entry

[wove100]

Planning on getting Axis and Allies WWI 1914 out next month with some friends. We’ll be using LHTR in hopes of finishing the game the same day. Considering the vulnerability of Italy and the Ottoman Empire, however, I wanted to get feedback on delaying their entry into the game in order to closer approximate their entry into the war and give them a bit more of a fighting chance.

My thought is that the Ottomans would remain strictly neutral until the beginning of their first turn (in keeping with their entry into the war via a surprise naval assault on Russia). By strictly neutral, I mean that no player can attack the Ottoman Empire before it has had its first turn. Players may of course defensively prepare for the entry of the Ottomans, but may not violate it’s territory or attack any of its units (and yes, attempting (forcing) passage from the Black Sea to Aegean Sea would be prohibited).

As for the Italians, I’m torn between keeping them strictly neutral until their first turn or their second turn. Strictly neutrality until their first turn would seem to allow them to prepare for the inevitable Austro-Hungarian offensive on AH2 (and move to counter amphibious assault on Tuscany). Strict neutrality until their second turn would seem to allow them to launch an relatively convincing attack on Austria-Hungary on I2 (while strictly neutral, Italy could still buy units, just like the US).

As a bow toward history, I’m inclined toward Italy staying strictly neutral until their second turn (simulating their negotiations with both the Allies and the Central Powers and allowing them to take the war to Austria-Hungary (which they at least tried - remember the First Battle of the Isonzo? …. remember the Eleventh Battle of the Isonzo??)). But strict neutrality until their first turn seems less game breaky.

As anyone tried anything similar? I’d love to hear your thoughts.

[Flashman]

I would define the term strict neutrality to include:

1. Not being able to collect money (i.e. assign national income to a military budget);

2. Spend any present funds on new units;

3. Mobilise the military (i.e. move units)

A neutral county therefore does not in fact have a turn until at war. It cannot buy units or deploy existing forces into defensive/offensive formations.

Personally I’d incline towards Turkey and Italy being considered neutral until their first turns, so this really only means they cannot be attacked before this. There’s even a case for Turkey being “activated” by the movement of G/A units.

There’s a whole new ball game in there somewhere with a “turn 0” in which all countries mobilize from start positions where units are in peacetime stations rather than concentrated on front lines.

With USA I’d also say they cannot collect/buy until at war, balancing the game by giving the CPs a bigger window of opportunity before the Yanks start landing in Italy.

[wove100]

Thanks for the thoughts, Flashman.

While your definition of strict neutrality is more historically accurate, it seems to me that it doesn’t really change anything. The Italians and the Ottomans would have a “normal” game, just starting one turn later.

My thought was to use an existing game mechanic (US-style neutrality) for Italy and the Ottoman Empire as a way to slightly bolster two vulnerable powers. Allowing Italy a turn to purchase and move units unmolested by other powers is the point. Similarly, preventing Russia from invading the Ottoman Empire before OE1 is the point.

Of course, everyone will know what’s coming (it’s a game after all), so they can take steps to counter likely opening moves, but it will give Italy and the Ottomans just a tiny bit of breathing room (hopefully).

And I do realize that US-style neutrality does mean that Ottoman units can’t be brought onto the board to defend Persia (or any other neutral/minor power) if it is invaded before OE1. But I don’t think having German or Austro-Hungarian units put onto the board to be killed the same turn is really going to change the dynamic much (unless the British player has no luck with the dice).