Europe 1940 shows up on Wizards site…with screenshot

[Dylan the Canadian]

@Upside-down_Turtle:

ahh…should have scanned forum more thoroughly.  :-P

Well IL locked it up so I guess it couldn’t be that hard to find  :wink:

[Upside-down_Turtle]

it’s IL’s way of rooting out the stupid…or the lazy  :-P

[Army of Northern Virginia]

1)the Brit flag has been seen on almost every Axis and Allies game to date, and even if it wasn’t the UK faction has been represented in every Axis and Allies board game (except Guadacanal and maybe the Battle of the Bulge–-haven’t played Bulge). Additionally, the UK is going to be well represented in Europe 1940 (Global 1940 even more so!).

Not having the flag on E1940 is like not having the US flag on P1940. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s been on the box – the US flag has been there too – the flags are to represent the major combatants and to give the box a historical grounding. The box should represent the time and events in which the game is set.

2)I see nothing wrong with the Free French flag being the “main” flag here. Free French contribution to the Allied war effort wasn’t significant to turn the strategic tide, but it was enough to warrant worthy mention. However, all of that is irrelevant; this is the introduction of France as a full power for the first time in Axis and Allies. Sure, Italy’s flag might not have been shown in AA50 but you don’t see the Italians complaining do you?

Italy was one of the aggressors, and a poor one at that. Most of what they did was German-lead, and by mid 1943 they were out of the war. Comparing Britain and the Commonwealth to the Italians is like comparing the US contribution to the French. I think Italy deserved a flag, I think France deserves one here, but it really really isn’t hard to get all of them on the box. It really isn’t.

Really, I don’t see what’s so insulting about the British flag not being shown on Europe 1940. We know what it looks like, we know how much the British contributed to the war effort (at least, people who know their history do),

Because America has a very very bad habit of sidelining other countries contributions in that war, and this feels like more of the same. Anyone who didn’t know their history and looked at that box would think that Britain wasn’t even involved but that the US was. Let me just illustrate what I mean: This game is called “Axis and Allies Europe 1940”, right? America was not even involved in the war in Europe in 1940! And not even in 1941! But what do we get on the box? Front and centre – Marshall. Why? And we also get Patton. Really? Europe 1940 – Patton? Again – Why?

It is just a box, I just don’t understand why the flag-waving British patriots have to whine and complain about it.

Complaining is often conveniently written-off as “whining” when someone disagrees with the complaint being made, but that doesn’t actually invalidate the complaint. Plus, that was a very disingenuous depiction of what’s happening. Axis and Allies is a historical war game based on events that actually happened. I wonder how a US vet might feel if they were shown a box for P1940 in which the Brits were front and center and the US flag didn’t appear? I’m sure they’d love it.

If the A & A range ever came out with a Russian front game, I would fully expect to see the US at the centre of the box with a flag right there clearly visible. Russians? Do we really need to show them? We all know they were there. I’m not really worried about that happening, though; the US didn’t fight on the Russian front so they’ll never make a game out of it, even though a Barbarossa / Stalingrad game would’ve completely pwned ‘Guadalcanal’ and ‘Bulge’.

[LHoffman]

Ah yes… total agreement here Army of Northern VA … a little heavy on the sarcasm, but hey, why not. I assume you meant to put “owned” instead of “pwned” when talking about a Barbarossa/Stalingrad game in reference to Battle of the Bulge or Guadalcanal. I agree here too. At least for me, a game such as that would probably have owned the others.

[UN Spacy]

@Army:

Italy was one of the aggressors, and a poor one at that.

That doesn’t mean they were all-around horrible. They knew how to fight when cornered, and inflicted enough casualties on the Allies in the Sicily landings to dispel a lot of the British wartime propaganda on them. Yes, it suffered a great deal from its sub-standard equipment, and its commanders were amateurish. But they fought relatively well under Rommel on the offensive, and fought viciously on the defensive. And they weren’t out of the war in 1943–-they just changed sides and began fighting for the Allies.

Because America has a very very bad habit of sidelining other countries contributions in that war, and this feels like more of the same. Anyone who didn’t know their history and looked at that box would think that Britain wasn’t even involved but that the US was. Let me just illustrate what I mean: This game is called “Axis and Allies Europe 1940”, right? America was not even involved in the war in Europe in 1940! And not even in 1941! But what do we get on the box? Front and centre – Marshall. Why? And we also get Patton. Really? Europe 1940 – Patton? Again – Why?

**I’m pretty sure that if someone was actively looking to get Axis and Allies Europe 1940, they would have at least played it before, or heard about it from someone, and therefore knows about the British as a major power in the game. If someone who didn’t know their history gets the game (and Pacific) and realizes just how well represented the British faction is, well, there you go, instant remedy. If they don’t get the game and are really stupid enough to believe that Britain wasn’t even involved but the US was, well, I guess he isn’t cut out to play A&A is he? Good, that’s one less idiot other A&A players have to deal with.

Additionally, there are several illustrations on the box that depicts British military units. I’ll leave you to figure out where they are.**

Complaining is often conveniently written-off as “whining” when someone disagrees with the complaint being made, but that doesn’t actually invalidate the complaint. Plus, that was a very disingenuous depiction of what’s happening. Axis and Allies is a historical war game based on events that actually happened. I wonder how a US vet might feel if they were shown a box for P1940 in which the Brits were front and center and the US flag didn’t appear? I’m sure they’d love it.

**No, they’d probably, like me, not give a damn.

I’m not going to re-iterate my point here. It’s a freakin box cover; I don’t care what flag is there and what isn’t and I don’t plan to care. Yes, I agree that its absence is a little odd, and maybe we’ll see it somewhere in there, but I’ll reserve final judgements when I get the game.**

[LHoffman]

Well… I have been through all this before. I am to the resigned point now and I have left my crusade behind. “It is what it is and I cannot change it.” I cannot say that I “don’t give a damn”, because I do I guess… but I realize my “damn” doesn’t matter all that much. I’ll let you know my opinion, and support those who agree with me, but I won’t keep pounding this issue. So yeah, I am done for now.

UN and Army of N. VA … you guys can duke it out. UN, you are probably tired of this though, first having to deal with me and now Army of Northern VA … I give you credit.

[UN Spacy]

@LHoffman:

Well… I have been through all this before. I am to the resigned point now and I have left my crusade behind. “It is what it is and I cannot change it.” I cannot say that I “don’t give a damn”, because I do I guess… but I realize my “damn” doesn’t matter all that much. I’ll let you know my opinion, and support those who agree with me, but I won’t keep pounding this issue. So yeah, I am done for now.

UN and Army of N. VA … you guys can duke it out. UN, you are probably tired of this though, first having to deal with me and now Army of Northern VA … I give you credit.

Eh. I just can’t wait for the game. Even if the box art was generic and crappy and wasn’t up to A&A quality I would still get it for the contents inside.  :-D

[LHoffman]

@UN:

@LHoffman:

Well… I have been through all this before. I am to the resigned point now and I have left my crusade behind. “It is what it is and I cannot change it.” I cannot say that I “don’t give a damn”, because I do I guess… but I realize my “damn” doesn’t matter all that much. I’ll let you know my opinion, and support those who agree with me, but I won’t keep pounding this issue. So yeah, I am done for now.

UN and Army of N. VA … you guys can duke it out. UN, you are probably tired of this though, first having to deal with me and now Army of Northern VA … I give you credit.

Eh. I just can’t wait for the game. Even if the box art was generic and crappy and wasn’t up to A&A quality I would still get it for the contents inside.  :-D

True dat.

[Croesus]

DANGIT!  I’ve wanted to allow russianships in the caspian for forever.Just give it a number PLEASE :wink:
Dost mine eyes deceive me? Or is Madagascar a different Colour than normal french stuff?
Will portugal be pro allies, pro axis, or neutral? I can’t tell, But from history I’d give the true neutralor pro allies.

pardon any double posting but this is a long topic to go through

[Army of Northern Virginia]

I assume you meant to put “owned” instead of “pwned” when talking about a Barbarossa/Stalingrad game in reference to Battle of the Bulge or Guadalcanal. I agree here too. At least for me, a game such as that would probably have owned the others.

Nah, I meant “pwn”. I was using netspeak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwned

I think some kind of A&A Russian-front game would be the brilliant, but I don’t hold out much hope of seeing one.

I won’t continue, since I’ve made my feelings clear and this is just one of those ‘we don’t agree’ type issues. I also don’t want to sound like I wouldn’t be able to enjoy / play the game because of it, which obviously isn’t true.

However, I will still say this…

No, they’d probably, like me, not give a damn.

I think some of them, like some people here, clearly would give a damn. For that reason alone designers should take certain things into account. I don’t hold WotC in particularly high esteem, since they have a habit of short-changing the consumer on many small aspects of games which in reality would take almost no effort or cost to put right. Larry only has input which goes so far, and he has my respect. But Wizards do too many irritating things, and to me, this is just another one of them.