I still think that Japan should take China, India and Soviet East Asia on turn 1 while knocking out the fleet at Pearl Harbor. If Japan buys 2 trnsports and 3 infantry on turn 1, it can use those on turn 2 to attack either Midway or Hawaii if the US does not counter-attack or if it doesn’t succeed in defeating the fleet there. Japan can use the carrier, battleship and fighter from the Caroline Sea to attack Pearl on T1 along with the fighter from the Philippines and the sub form the Pacific. Attacking Indiea with the 2 infantry and fighter from Indo-China and the bomber from Japan should also be done, along with an assault on Soviet East Asia using 2 infantry and a fighter from Japan and the battleship there. The 2 infantry from Kwangtung, along with 2 infantry from Manchuria and the fighter there should attack China. On the non-combat move, Japan uses the transport on the Philippines to land either 1 or both of the infantry from the Pilippines at French Indo-China.
You guys need to quit talking like this.
You’re scaring Lilo.
:wink:
I still think that Japan should take China, India and Soviet East Asia on turn 1 while knocking out the fleet at Pearl Harbor. If Japan buys 2 trnsports and 3 infantry on turn 1, it can use those on turn 2 to attack either Midway or Hawaii if the US does not counter-attack or if it doesn’t succeed in defeating the fleet there. Japan can use the carrier, battleship and fighter from the Caroline Sea to attack Pearl on T1 along with the fighter from the Philippines and the sub form the Pacific. Attacking Indiea with the 2 infantry and fighter from Indo-China and the bomber from Japan should also be done, along with an assault on Soviet East Asia using 2 infantry and a fighter from Japan and the battleship there. The 2 infantry from Kwangtung, along with 2 infantry from Manchuria and the fighter there should attack China. On the non-combat move, Japan uses the transport on the Philippines to land either 1 or both of the infantry from the Pilippines at French Indo-China.
I can see you are an experienced player, but I must disagree. The odds in all these attacks are long. If you win 2 of these battles, you are likely to lose 2 as well, and that is bad.
Assuming there is only 2 INF and 1 FTR on India (in our games there is often 3 INF) , you are attacking w/ 2 INF 1 FTR and 1 BMR. The UK get 2 rolls at 2, 1-at-4. You will get 2-at-1, 1-at-3, and 1-at-4. That means the odds–while slightly in your favor–are more or less even, which means you are likely to take at least 2 hits (In my knee-jerk probability analysis). Will you lose a FTR or fail to take the territory?
What about China? There you are attacking w/ 4-at-1 and 1-at-3, where the U.S.-Supported Chinese Forces are defending at 2-at-2 and 1-at-4. You’d better hope that you score 2 hits on your first attack, or the Chinese will undoubtedly make at least 3 total hits (they may anyway) before they die, leaving you again holding a territory w/ 1 INF.
In Hawaii you will most assuredly win, with your 1-at-1 (CV), 1-at-2(plus no counter-SUB), 2-at-3 (FTRs) and 1-at-4 (BB), vs. 1-at-2, 1-at-3, and 1-at-4. But the US will practically ALWAYS score at least 1 hit at these odds, and might withdraw their SUB for a future counterattack. Assuming they’ve sunk just your SUB, they can then on their turn attack you w/ 1 TR, 2 FTR, 1 BMR and 1 BB. That’s 1-at-0, 2-at-3, and 2-at-4. They will score at least 2 hits, and you will have to lose 2 FTRs or 1 FTR and a BB (if you lose the CV, they can just rtereat and you automatically lose a FTR). Depending on how determined they are, USA may score another hit on round 2. Either way, it is now up to USA to decide whether they want to build another fleet to challenge you in the Pacific, or just build a D-Day force against Germany in the East–you have just ceded the initiative to USA.
The assault on Soviet Far East is sound, providing the Soviets have only 1 to 3 INF there (as they usually do). However if they left only 1 INF in SFE, which you destroyed w/ your BB, you are still leaving only 2 INF in SFE, 1 INF in Manchukuo, and (at best) 3 FTRs in Manchukuo. So you launch an attack against the Soviet forces in Yakut S.S.R T2. You can attack with, at maximum, 3 INF 3 FTRs and a BMR. That is 3-at-1, 3-at-3, and 1-at-4 vs. (presumably) 5-at-2. The Soviets will score either 1 or 2 hits before being destroyed, leaving your land forces in Asia in complete tatters. The Soviets will need to commit only, I’d say, 3-4 INF to prevent you from making any further inroads into their territory until you’ve had time to build up again–say 1-2 turns at best; and this is only assuming you have NOT made the attack on Midway/Hawaii you say you have planned for T2. This is not helping your German partner much.
So to recap, assuming you took India & lost a FTR there, T2 you are looking at: 2 INF SFE; 1 INF 2 FTR MANCHURIA; 1 INF CHINA; 2 INF 1 BMR F I/C BURMA; 1 INF INDIA; 3 TR 4 INF 1 ARM Japan, and maybe 1 CV Hawaii. You have indeed gained (given a little luck) 7 IPCs in Asia, but you must reinforce your units to make headway vs. the USSR and Ssinkiang, so you will basically lose a turn doing so. Again this is only assuming you have NOT made your planned Midway/Hawaii attack. Germany needs you to be WHALING on USSR by T3. What do you do…?
This is just intended as an honest critique. As I said I can see you are an experienced player and have planned this attack carefully. I am just not comfortable with 50%/50% odds unless the gains are very substantial. In a game where the Allies go for a “Germany pileup”–the worst case scenario–this plan would just not be effective. Perhaps if you knew the Allies were banking on a USA attack on the Pacific Islands it’d work, but if not, watch out!
Ozone27
Nice calculations. On T2, I usually like to make one attack either on Midway or either on Hawaii, while using the 2 other transports (one on the Sea of Japan and one on the Okhtok Sea) to ferry troops and tanks from Japan into Manchuria. I also like to purchase a complex if I can afford to, which I place either on India, French Indo-China or Manchuria. I like to use all the remaining infantry in China and Indo-china to attack Sinkiang. you’re right about the Germans crying for help by T3, but I find that unless I start quite an aggressive campaign on T1, the Russians can simply prepare their forces in the east and setup a reasonable defence. the invasion of Hawaii on T1 doesn’t put any pressure on Russia at all like the invasion of Soviet East Asia. By attacking Soviet East Asia, I find that Russian players move an infnatry unit or a tank eastward to help defend against more Japanese incursions. At least one infantry moving toward Japan from the East Front is better than nothing moving there.
Japan could never take over Hawaii.
Don Ho would smash their heads with his ukulele and Jack Lord’s lock of hair that has a life of it’s own would whip their butts.
Wow, Ozone, great post! You basically wrote down everything I had to say and then some :wink:
And Emu, you are stretching yourself too thin by going after India, China, and Soviet Far East. Like Ozone said, China and the Soviet Far East are good takes, but mix them with India, and you’re bound to have trouble. Now usually I will go after China, Soviet Far East (only if lightly defended), and Hawaii. China needs to be taken on T1, or else you risk that US ftr getting away - 12 IPCs right there!
The problem with India is that it is strategically well-defended on Japan’s T1. Remember, the British is not dumb (well, unless it’s TM who is playing :wink:), and he will have probably unload 1 inf from Syria (2 if Germany didn’t take Egypt) in India, giving him a strong defensive stand at 3 inf, 1 ftr. Also, the UK transport in the sea zone protects India from an amphibious assault, unless Japan risk using it’s ftrs – frts needed at Pearl Harbor or in the China battle. By all means, if UK hasn’t built an IC there, wait to take India until at least T2.
@TG:
And Emu, you are stretching yourself too thin by going after India, China, and Soviet Far East. Like Ozone said, China and the Soviet Far East are good takes, but mix them with India, and you’re bound to have trouble. Now usually I will go after China, Soviet Far East (only if lightly defended), and Hawaii. China needs to be taken on T1, or else you risk that US ftr getting away - 12 IPCs right there!
The problem with India is that it is strategically well-defended on Japan’s T1. Remember, the British is not dumb (well, unless it’s TM who is playing :wink:), and he will have probably unload 1 inf from Syria (2 if Germany didn’t take Egypt) in India, giving him a strong defensive stand at 3 inf, 1 ftr. Also, the UK transport in the sea zone protects India from an amphibious assault, unless Japan risk using it’s ftrs – frts needed at Pearl Harbor or in the China battle. By all means, if UK hasn’t built an IC there, wait to take India until at least T2.
You are assuming that the British will reinforce India. Many times I’ve seen the British remove a good deal of India’s defence in favour of re-gruping forces in Russia or Africa. Also, if the British fighters remains and you take India, that’s 12 IPCs right there from Britain, which is also a painful loss. Well, I guess we can disagree on this point.
…before the Imperial fleet could even get near Hawaii, Elvis would unleash his overly-dressed concubines with the behive hairdos and sink any invasion force the Japanesse could muster.
I’m not gonna give up 'til I get a laugh.
You are assuming that the British will reinforce India. Many times I’ve seen the British remove a good deal of India’s defence in favour of re-gruping forces in Russia or Africa. Also, if the British fighters remains and you take India, that’s 12 IPCs right there from Britain, which is also a painful loss. Well, I guess we can disagree on this point.
Yes, like Ozone, I expect India to be fortified fortified. Also, letting that UK frt get away is tough, but you don’t want to lose 1 one of your own ftrs in the process. What forces do you expect to land in India if UK does garrison, 3 inf, 1 ftr and 1 trns there? How will you defend yourself in India, Burma, China is a likely counterattack by US or USSR?
Unless I’m not going all out on Germany (I do 95% of the time when I really want to win as Allies) Don’t expect anything in India, it is going to be in Egypt by the end of UK1.
@TG:
You are assuming that the British will reinforce India. Many times I’ve seen the British remove a good deal of India’s defence in favour of re-gruping forces in Russia or Africa. Also, if the British fighters remains and you take India, that’s 12 IPCs right there from Britain, which is also a painful loss. Well, I guess we can disagree on this point.
Yes, like Ozone, I expect India to be fortified fortified. Also, letting that UK frt get away is tough, but you don’t want to lose 1 one of your own ftrs in the process. What forces do you expect to land in India if UK does garrison, 3 inf, 1 ftr and 1 trns there? How will you defend yourself in India, Burma, China is a likely counterattack by US or USSR?
I said I’d bring in reinforcements from the Philippines ot French Indo-China using the transports in the Philippine Sea. I’d use 2 infantry, a bomber and a fighter to hit India. I’ve done this and faced the American and Russian counter-attack before. The Russians invaded Manchuria and the Americans invaded India. But during T2 I simply landed tanks and infantry into Manchuria and if I could afford to with my force in China, i’d strike at Sinkiang. Usually I’d take Yakut SSR too. But by T2 I’d usually be placing a complex in Asia.
This depends on the German’s actions G1.
:-?
man… tough crowd.
Nice calculations. On T2, I usually like to make one attack either on Midway or either on Hawaii, while using the 2 other transports (one on the Sea of Japan and one on the Okhtok Sea) to ferry troops and tanks from Japan into Manchuria. I also like to purchase a complex if I can afford to, which I place either on India, French Indo-China or Manchuria. I like to use all the remaining infantry in China and Indo-china to attack Sinkiang. you’re right about the Germans crying for help by T3, but I find that unless I start quite an aggressive campaign on T1, the Russians can simply prepare their forces in the east and setup a reasonable defence. the invasion of Hawaii on T1 doesn’t put any pressure on Russia at all like the invasion of Soviet East Asia. By attacking Soviet East Asia, I find that Russian players move an infnatry unit or a tank eastward to help defend against more Japanese incursions. At least one infantry moving toward Japan from the East Front is better than nothing moving there.
True, but hitting Hawaii immediately puts pressure on the Americans, which is something Germany cannot do. Will they cede the Pacific to the IJN and risk a costly invasion of North America? Or will they launch an attack against you with whatever available units and hope they kill the same # of you as you of them? You have the advantage in the Pacific if you take Hawaii.
Besides, maybe later you can land a BMR or 2 and start Strategic Bombing USA… :lol: It could happen…
Basically if you play smart (that is, conservative) the 1st turn, you can just bottle up India & Ssinkiang till you’re ready to take them while driving in heavily on USSR on T2! Hawaii is not valuable economically, but is valuable strategically–the reason you take it T1 is to ensure you will hold onto your superiority in the Pacific. With your flank secure, you may drive in with all your might against Asia.
On a side note, many players discount USAs ability to do damage in the Pacific if let go. Keep in mind that there are 7 IPCs in the Pacific (11 counting Australia/New Zealand/Hawaii!)–a dominant USA can negate all your conquests in Asia by controlling the Pacific. Worse, if you don’t attack Hawaii T1 (or lose all your ships doing so) you enable a good USA player to fight you in the Pacific AND build a decent D-Day force in East USA at the same time. They are that rich. If you don’t attack P.H. and have a good reason, fine. But if you DO attack P.H. T1, you’d better be prepared to finish the job. Take Hawaii.
Ozone27
:-?
man… tough crowd.
If only you could get “Elvis w/ a ukalele” on a tech-roll. You’d have the game in the bag…
“Dam! They got Elvis with a Ukalele!”
"Screw it, this game’s over…’
:D
Ozone27
"True, but hitting Hawaii immediately puts pressure on the Americans, which is something Germany cannot do. Will they cede the Pacific to the IJN and risk a costly invasion of North America? Or will they launch an attack against you with whatever available units and hope they kill the same # of you as you of them? You have the advantage in the Pacific if you take Hawaii.
Besides, maybe later you can land a BMR or 2 and start Strategic Bombing USA… It could happen…"
Sir Ozone is right. The more you disrupt America’s offensive capability, the less strain that is put on Germany. Not only are you gaining extra income and securing your ‘flanks,’ but this forces the American player to withdraw extra men to Western USA, diverting forces that would otherwise go to Europe. In essence, Germany is given time to prepare a sturdy defense without risking the threat of a two front war too soon.
he he he
I can only be serious 94.12% of the time.
:lol:
But by invading India, you are weakening in the British and are putting a bigger threat against Sinkiang, which could make the Russian player funnel forces there due to the amount of forces Japan has ready t ostrike there. Like you said, 2 infantry from China, 1 infantry from India, and 2 infantry and a bomber from French Indo-China. Against the 2 American infantry in Sinkiang, Japan has an advantage. If Sinkiang falls, then Japan can begin to stack forces there, providing Japan builds a complex on India or Indo-China.
As the Axis, I ussually try to hit the U.S.S.R. as hard as I possibl can, because once they go under the game is over. In the first four turns, the Axis can take Karelia, Soviet Far East, Yakut, Novosbirsk, Event Nat’l Orkug, and Kazakstan, while suppressing Allied navies enough to prevent a major counter-attack. With that much pressure on Moscow, Russia doesn’t last long.
