Exactly my point. Germany took the full brunt of the protestant reformation, and the ensuing religious wars. Bismarck tried to crush the Catholic Church in Germany. Germany was dominated for decades by the Nazis and later East Germany was owned by the Communists. And Germany is still 1/3 Catholic after all that.
Now look at France. France has gotten off easy as too factors which would suppress Catholicism. The Catholic pouplace rose up to fight the french revolution on more than one occaision. Napoleon even made peace with the Pope, whom he hated, becasue France is so Catholic. In fact they rose up when he had the Pope beaten and imprisoned.
That is why France is more CAtholic than Germany.
i’d always thought of Germany as being protestant (Luthren)/reformed (zwingli and other Dutch and Swiss reformers) far more than being Catholic. That doesn’t make sense to me. Although i see Europe as becoming less and less Catholic as “tradition” is being cast off, and (some) people start trying to make their own way.
South Germany is generally Catholic (Lichtenstein, Bavaria, Austria) while North Germany (Prussia) is generally Protestant.
Historicly you are right YB, but you are thinking like an american, french are not like that, they change very fast, maybe too fast sometime… France was really catholic not so long ago, but it is not the case now. We have no strong Catholic/Christian party, and if the stat said only 12% catholic it is becaue of an exageration of Agnostic, certainly due to the question… At the limit, an agnostic can be consider someone that is not sure. But as always i will argue your Statistics is invalid because there is no survey, and that is for that reason Germany get so much “Unnafiliated”, not because the communist convert a lot of people, (sure they did but not that much) but because the statistic only consider how people are born, i can assure you christianism is stronger in Germany than in France.
I am sure that i you had visit france you would understand how religion is weak. Church are never full, priest are getting really old and our politician never finish their speach with “que dieu bénisse la France”. As CC said, the “old world” start to let down tradition in general, after the WWII there was a renew in Europe.
Hey Horten, you’ve said it yourself. Europeans are more Liberal. Liberal means change. We’re a conservative country. We don’t change, they do.
“Hey Horten, you’ve said it yourself. Europeans are more Liberal. Liberal means change. We’re a conservative country. We don’t change, they do.”
Well, I wouldn’t say we’re conservative, otherwise I would see many of my programs being carried out. Also, the Democratic party has made quite a move in elected positions for the past years, narrowing the gap of the once strong Republican senate. And you have to remember, Bush was a minority president (though public opinion pulls would say differently today). But I will say that America is definitely less liberal then Europe as a whole.
@TG:
“Hey Horten, you’ve said it yourself. Europeans are more Liberal. Liberal means change. We’re a conservative country. We don’t change, they do.”
Well, I wouldn’t say we’re conservative, otherwise I would see many of my programs being carried out. Also, the Democratic party has made quite a move in elected positions for the past years, narrowing the gap of the once strong Republican senate. And you have to remember, Bush was a minority president (though public opinion pulls would say differently today). But I will say that America is definitely less liberal then Europe as a whole.
i think that even the democrats are, as a party, fairly conservative relative to Europeans and Canucks. Canada has a nice middle ground (some might say that the extremists average things out, but that’s not really fair . . . ).
“democrats are, as a party, fairly conservative relative to Canucks”
Whoa, that caught me as a bit odd - not that there’s anything wrong with it. So what would you Canucks call a Republican, a facist Nazi dictator? :roll:
@TG:
“democrats are, as a party, fairly conservative relative to Canucks”
Whoa, that caught me as a bit odd - not that there’s anything wrong with it. So what would you Canucks call a Republican, a facist Nazi dictator? :roll:
either that, or a former reformer/Canadian Alliance party member. They would certainly be to the right of the “Progressive Conservatives” - which was Canada’s conservative/right-wing party (before Reform/CRAP).
Also i meant “conservative relative to the Canucks” in general - obviously we have some wingnuts to both extremes. But take a look at our social programs, humanitarian aid programs, medicare, union strength, blah blah blah . . . . Just another reason why George Bush hates Jean Cretien - opposite ends of the political spectrum (although Cretien is much more “fascist dictator” than most world leaders . . . :) )
@cystic:
@TG:
“democrats are, as a party, fairly conservative relative to Canucks”
Whoa, that caught me as a bit odd - not that there’s anything wrong with it. So what would you Canucks call a Republican, a facist Nazi dictator? :roll:
either that, or a former reformer/Canadian Alliance party member. They would certainly be to the right of the “Progressive Conservatives” - which was Canada’s conservative/right-wing party (before Reform/CRAP).
Also i meant “conservative relative to the Canucks” in general - obviously we have some wingnuts to both extremes. But take a look at our social programs, humanitarian aid programs, medicare, union strength, blah blah blah . . . . Just another reason why George Bush hates Jean Cretien - opposite ends of the political spectrum (although Cretien is much more “fascist dictator” than most world leaders . . . :) )
I think Jean Cretien has brain cancer.
If there was ever a time for Canada to assassinate a Prime Minister, this is it.
“I think Jean Cretien has brain cancer.”
Whoa, don’t you guys have laws against this!? (us Americans have the unfit for duty clause). But to be fair, USA has had its share of “off” presidents. How old was Regan again when he left office? :wink:
@TG:
“I think Jean Cretien has brain cancer.”
Whoa, don’t you guys have laws against this!? (us Americans have the unfit for duty clause). But to be fair, USA has had its share of “off” presidents. How old was Regan again when he left office? :wink:
He doesnt really have brain cancer.
But, if you ever see him talk, you will think his does.
Why, does he even sound worst then George Bush!? (God help us :wink:)
@Mr:
@TG:
“I think Jean Cretien has brain cancer.”
Whoa, don’t you guys have laws against this!? (us Americans have the unfit for duty clause). But to be fair, USA has had its share of “off” presidents. How old was Regan again when he left office? :wink:
He doesnt really have brain cancer.
But, if you ever see him talk, you will think his does.
:lol: That’s not really nice. I think he had some cerebral palsy. It doesn’t change the fact that he is an idiot (albeit a politically savvy one) who can’t speak either national language properly. And the non-pacifist part of me is with Ghoul on the assassinate bit.
It is true that France is more liberal than America, they have had 6 republics and 2 empires in less time than America has been a nation.
Americans are a little gentler on our government(s), we are still on our first republic (the French are on their sixth)
CC, that is the biggest, unthoughtful insult I have heard you say about France. France was the birthplace of democracy in Europe. Why so many different Goverments? Because every other European Empire, without exception, ganged up on France. France ultimately brought Monarchy down.
CC, that is the biggest, unthoughtful insult I have heard you say about France. France was the birthplace of democracy in Europe. Why so many different Goverments? Because every other European Empire, without exception, ganged up on France. France ultimately brought Monarchy down.
Take it easy on the Crypt there Yanny. One comment on the Vichy is not that much of an insult, really. Maybe you should be hammering YB for that. Or did i say something in another post that i’m not cognizant of right now?
And wasn’t Greece the original birthplace of democracy?
And France really didn’t go about it’s democracy in a very polite manner, as i recall . . . the founders of this “democracy” kind of lost their heads over it . . .
woo hoo haa haa . . . i kill me. :lol:
Well whenever I get a little ticked at the French or France, I like to remind myself of a few things that the French gave us:
(well that’s all I could think up for now, but you get the picture :wink:)
Your from Canada right? Well your acting like a typical American.
1. We are not better than France.
2. France is not better than us.
3. France is the leader of Europe.
4. France has a history 10x Longer than North America.
Your swinging Nation vs Nation here, not talkng about the census. I am tired of this Roman type idea Americans have about themselves. Yes, I know your Canadian.
Your from Canada right? Well your acting like a typical American.
1. We are not better than France.
2. France is not better than us.
3. France is the leader of Europe.
4. France has a history 10x Longer than North America.Your swinging Nation vs Nation here, not talkng about the census. I am tired of this Roman type idea Americans have about themselves. Yes, I know your Canadian.
really Yanny, i’m not at all sure where this is coming from . . . . I mean, i tease FinsterniS a little bit, but i’m not really taking any shots at any nation, but i don’t recall being aggressively insulting. I really don’t believe that any country is better than France (although it’s my patriotic duty to claim that Canada is better than everyone :) ), i don’t believe that France is the leader of Europe, or that any nation is, and i believe that the France today is not really that old (Portugal has the longest history of nationhood dating back to the 1180’s or so), but there are a lot of buildings and ideas that are old in France.
Look at my record on here. Certainly i have strong opinions, however i do try and keep them objective, and struggle to rise above my base-nature, even if provoked.
(and please do not compare me to a typical American - those people keep me out of all of my most desired tourist spots :D )
