I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

This is my first go at ignoring 110, and I’m sure each time I give it a go I’ll make some changes. There is a long term strategy beyond G1 but that’s beside the point.

Germany lost 5 planes without attacking 110. 3 of those came by joining the battle of 109 with 3 subs - I intended to lose those 3 planes so I would most likely have 3 subs convoying London for up to 8 dollars and that is what happened. Sending 3 subs to 109 forces UK hand to send all 4 fighters to scramble - you don’t even have to worry about 111 scramble as UK can’t afford to not send every single fighter to try to eliminate as many subs as possible. 3 subs should be able to convoy off 8$. The lost 3 planes were worth it for my strategy - and I knew the planes I added to the battle would take out some of the scramblers - they took out two. German subs got 1 hit, 4 ftr and 1 destroyer got 3 hits which all went to planes and German subs submerged.

Why does attacking SZ109 with subs force the UK to scramble into the SZ? IF you attack with 3 subs and say 3-4 planes im not suiciding my planes for your subs.
This also frees up the plane in 111 to scramble and do real damage. Your only attacking with airforce you committed at least 4 planes to 109 so you can only commit 5 to 111.

Convoy damage is annoying yes but im not trading planes for subs.

Lost the other 2 planes attacking SZ 111 - didn’t involve the BB because he has more important things to do G2. Germany purchased destroyer, SB, ftr with their $30 so they replaced 2 of the lost planes (well, SB for a lost Tac).

So here i would add the extra fighter so you might not even have won SZ111 or have more losses there. No subs to soak damage so everything goes right to the airforce.

Germany conquered all of France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Finland and collected $73.

NOW… you are the allies:

As UK, do you do the London Bulge (send 91 Cruiser to 110, buy two destroyers, cruiser and do Taranto and have a nice sized Atlantic fleet), or do you do the Gibralter Bulge (send BB, Cruiser to 92, and have 91 cruiser, AC and posssibly another boat join to start wrecking stuff in the Med. French Cruiser can join on their turn or stay there, or move down the coast to serve as blocker; buy IC for Egypt, trn and tank for South Africa)

I would buy airbase for gibraltar fly 3 planes from london there. Combine the fleet in the med off gibraltar with the cruiser from 91 and the fleet from 110. Use only planes to kill the italian destroyer. Now i got Fleet + airbase off gibraltar consisting of 1 destroyer 3 cruisers 1 bb 1 AC 1 fighter 1 tactical and 3 fighters on gibraltar.

Your 3 subs are hanging now, if you stay in 109 to do convoy damage i got 1 destroyer in range with 6 planes. If they move they dont convoy me anymore.
Also the italian navy is in a pickle, if they move they are dead, they have to stay together and stay near their airbase in order to live.
And good luck doing sea lion, that fleet can just as easy move back to 110.

What say you for the UK response?

See above, I would not have suicided my planes in the first place, and consolidate my fleet just inside the med. And yea the rest of the income can be inf on london ofcourse.
Good luck italy trying to get me out of there, or even moving around. Might move my strat bomber to gibraltar as well just for good measure.

thank you. I was planning on doing the SZ 92 if I got no responses. I wouldn’t have done AB in Gib so thanks for that tip.

Germany’s turn one buy was strictly to counter the SZ 92 fleet. If you guys like I can show you what happens later and why 3 subs in 109 plays a big part in it. If I didn’t send planes into 109, then UK would scramble 4 fighters and wipe them out and my long term plan wouldn’t work.

This is my first time tinkering with ignoring 110 so I appreciate all comments

[dazedwit]

@dazedwit

SZ 92 fleet becomes really annoying to Germany, but they have counter all set up to deal with that annoyance. All the planes in Gib def could wipe out my counter but I have plans for when that happens. Wait, you said nothing but planes taking out the destroyer on Malta right? so two fighters will be in Malta, and not Gib - two less planes is good for the German counter.

SZ 110 fleet = absolute bloodbath with all planes and boats going down G2 (Italy SB would hit their AB I1 so no scramble).

92 saves offensive firepower for G3

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit
I dont park in SZ 92 but next to it just in the med ( not sure of the SZ number), your 3 subs cant reach there as its 3 spaces away.
Your airforce can only send 3 bombers my way, i would love to see you do that against that fleet.

As my airforce from london is still in 1 piece those will land in gibraltar.
The tactical(carrier ) and figher from malta will destroy the destroyer. Then the whole fleet will move towards gibraltar meeting up with the 110 and SZ92 fleet becomming 1 big stack.

With 3 fighter scramble ( 1 from gibraltar + 2 from london ) and a AC with 1 fighter + 1 tactical )
a BB 3 cruisers and a destroyer you are not sinking that fleet unless you have insane good dice.

Italy cannot really attack unless they want to lose bigtime, germany has 3 bombers in range, eh yea right.

So yea thats why i wont suicide on SZ109 if you send planes there. You can take hits on subs i have to take them on planes. UK does not have that kind of money,

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

SZ 92 is one space inside the Med. SZ 91 is outside the Med and starts the game with a UK cruiser. I’m pretty sure you want the boats in 92 as that is 3 spaces away from 109.

I already did 109 so that’s going forward this game.

I never even thought that could not be a scramble in 109. Now that I know that actually quite probable, that would change G1 buy to cover that possibility. Still send the 3 planes just in case.

I’m going to go through ignore 110 multiple times. Next time I’ll keep all your planes

Started US1 - they bought 2 AC, 2 DD to split on each coast, 1 mech. Big fleet in Hawaii. Didn’t go get Brazil. Collect $52

I tinkered with Japan opener and excited to see how that works out.

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk

SZ 92 is one space inside the Med. SZ 91 is outside the Med and starts the game with a UK cruiser. I’m pretty sure you want the boats in 92 as that is 3 spaces away from 109.

I already did 109 so that’s going forward this game.

I never even thought that could not be a scramble in 109. Now that I know that actually quite probable, that would change G1 buy to cover that possibility. Still send the 3 planes just in case.

I’m going to go through ignore 110 multiple times. Next time I’ll keep all your planes

Started US1 - they bought 2 AC, 2 DD to split on each coast, 1 mech. Big fleet in Hawaii. Didn’t go get Brazil. Collect $52

I tinkered with Japan opener and excited to see how that works out.

Well yea not suiciding the UK airforce is a pretty important thing. Else the airbase isnt really usefull.

But saving the fleet there is usefull even without the airbase italy is hard pressed to attack into it and survive. Germany cant touch it either and it can move towards 110 or 109 next round, or stay in the med and sink italian shipping.

Scrambling in 109 has handicapped the UK severly, sure germany losing 3 planes is annoying but the UK losing all its airforce is bad.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk this is the Gibastion correct? I’ve read about it but only things out there only seem to deal with the opening: building the fleet in the Med and planes on Gib. But what comes next? Is it going after the Italian fleet? Is it heading back to 110? Somewhere else?

was able to find a single thread where I got one answer to, “what’s next.” He attacked Italian fleet, moved all planes to Egypt so they can move on to Moscow - I assume all the boats came since he took out the Italian navy completely. That sounds like a sound strat but maybe I’m not thinking of other options?

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk this is the Gibastion correct? I’ve read about it but only things out there only seem to deal with the opening: building the fleet in the Med and planes on Gib. But what comes next? Is it going after the Italian fleet? Is it heading back to 110? Somewhere else?

was able to find a single thread where I got one answer to, “what’s next.” He attacked Italian fleet, moved all planes to Egypt so they can move on to Moscow - I assume all the boats came since he took out the Italian navy completely. That sounds like a sound strat but maybe I’m not thinking of other options?

It depends what the axis do after, basically it allows multiple actions from the allies while restricting movement for the axis.

If italy moves out to attack egypt you can sink that fleet for nearly free.
If germany goes ahead with sea-lion you can easy block it.
If germany pulls out of its sea-lion fake you can move the fleet up and start harassing normandy,

It all depends on what the axis does, the allies cannot have a strategy that is fixed.

If germany does not build boats and italy stays in port, you can stay in port as well with that fleet, sink some subs or just be annoying. It already does its job while being in SZ92. it takes away options for italy and removes 1 NO.

Technically you cannot block sea-lion if germany puts his transports in the north-sea. But you will be sinking all their navy if they do sea-lion and basicaly remove a large part of the land army from the board which is nice for russia.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

Here is end of UK2. Purchased AB and IC for Egypt in Atlantic. Purchased ftr and trn for UK Pacific

[dazedwit]

@dazedwit

I just rolled the convoys of 106 and 109 and took $3 and $8 off UK. UK collects $23

The French convoy got rolled at same time cuz I forgot about them on G1 collect income, and they missed.

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit

Why the factory in egypt? Do you need it now and can you defend it?

Also why the transport and fighter for UK-pac? They start with 2 fighters and a tactical so no need for more air they need some ground forces imo.

You cant defend the transport anyway, japan is way to powerfull

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

I guess I didn’t take a wide pic of Asia. Japan is busy with Russia in the North and nowhere near Calcutta at this point. So grabbed another trn to help pick up more money islands in expedited fashion.

IC in Egypt because I have a nice sized fleet about to dominate the Med. In no danger of losing IC to Italy because turtled in Egypt with one block in Alexandria. I guess Italy could invade w/ 4 units and offshore bombardment but that will be very close fight. I was going to land the two planes from Malta battle in Egypt but sent them to Gib cuz that’s what I thought you said they go. I figure UK should be only one left after 2 turns, and then convoy lots of money off Italy. IC gets a nice entry point to Middle East and soft underbelly of Russia.

What would you have bought instead of IC. $13 left after AB buy.

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk

I guess I didn’t take a wide pic of Asia. Japan is busy with Russia in the North and nowhere near Calcutta at this point. So grabbed another trn to help pick up more money islands in expedited fashion.

IC in Egypt because I have a nice sized fleet about to dominate the Med. In no danger of losing IC to Italy because turtled in Egypt with one block in Alexandria. I guess Italy could invade w/ 4 units and offshore bombardment but that will be very close fight. I was going to land the two planes from Malta battle in Egypt but sent them to Gib cuz that’s what I thought you said they go. I figure UK should be only one left after 2 turns, and then convoy lots of money off Italy. IC gets a nice entry point to Middle East and soft underbelly of Russia.

What would you have bought instead of IC. $13 left after AB buy.

You still want to keep your capital protected as well. So 3 inf 1 art would be good in londen.
Once you have secured afrika you dont really need a factory there.

Also if japan is up north you can use your initial transport to take 1 island and have anzac take the other 1. next turn you take the last islands.

If japan is weak you need to abuse it by having land forces to drain him white, use china to harass and make him attack everywhere and then use UK-pac to just attack the strongpoints. He needs land units the quicker you kill those the better.

Also your chinese fighter is really exposed there, so are you 6 chineese infantry in the front line.

Your better off with a sub as well, nice to harass japan force him to use destroyers. But if japan really did leave it like that at the end of J1 they are really in for a hard time losing 2 of their 3 transports round 1. Also losing a lot of units north as they didnt have extra forces there.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

those six Chinese are the six that liberated Yunnan so don’t know what I can do about that.

the Flying Tiger is in Burma. Japan would have to declare war on UK to attack it, and they are in no position to really threaten Burma. It could be taken out with planes but personally I would use the planes to wipe out all Chinese inf they can reach.

I wouldn’t necessarily say Japan is weak - they are just occupied with other things.

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk

those six Chinese are the six that liberated Yunnan so don’t know what I can do about that.

the Flying Tiger is in Burma. Japan would have to declare war on UK to attack it, and they are in no position to really threaten Burma. It could be taken out with planes but personally I would use the planes to wipe out all Chinese inf they can reach.

I wouldn’t necessarily say Japan is weak - they are just occupied with other things.

Japan had all 4 units alive after taking yunnan? Because you needed 6 inf to take it back? And then had terrible luck in defence?
Still the fighter is exposed there but you can still place your india stack there with the fighter + where is the tactical india starts with?

Also in this situation UK-pac would declare war and whipe out most of the japanese transports round 1. At least from what i seen that is all the transports in range. And take java for good measure. Gives them a huge income the next round and japan not in a position to threathen.

Japan will declare war round 2 anyway because else UK-pac will declare war :) so 1 round difference is not a big deal, the 15ipcs NO bonus for japan and anzac is.

Also why lose a destroyer in the med as a blocker? Just put it with the fleet you want italy to attack your fleet, you got more of basically everything there. IF he attacks he loses his fleet and you can attack on your turn somewhere else as it repairs.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk

those six Chinese are the six that liberated Yunnan so don’t know what I can do about that.

the Flying Tiger is in Burma. Japan would have to declare war on UK to attack it, and they are in no position to really threaten Burma. It could be taken out with planes but personally I would use the planes to wipe out all Chinese inf they can reach.

I wouldn’t necessarily say Japan is weak - they are just occupied with other things.

Japan had all 4 units alive after taking yunnan? Because you needed 6 inf to take it back? And then had terrible luck in defence?
Still the fighter is exposed there but you can still place your india stack there with the fighter + where is the tactical india starts with?

Also in this situation UK-pac would declare war and whipe out most of the japanese transports round 1. At least from what i seen that is all the transports in range. And take java for good measure. Gives them a huge income the next round and japan not in a position to threathen.

Japan will declare war round 2 anyway because else UK-pac will declare war :) so 1 round difference is not a big deal, the 15ipcs NO bonus for japan and anzac is.

Also why lose a destroyer in the med as a blocker? Just put it with the fleet you want italy to attack your fleet, you got more of basically everything there. IF he attacks he loses his fleet and you can attack on your turn somewhere else as it repairs.

I don’t remember what Japan took Yunnan with.

I honestly wasn’t paying much attention when moving Japan around. I would always send escorts with the trn. It is what it is.

The Tac either never got put on, or I may have scooped it up by mistake when cleaning up the board. I put one back on.

I removed the IC in Egypt and dropped 3 inf and art in London instead.

Edit: playing alone, I don’t have a roomful of eyes to tip me off when stuff is missed.

Edit2: the destroyer was left as blocker because I read many many times on this forum that you drop it there when building a fleet in 92. Doesn’t matter to me where it goes.

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:

@shadowhawk

those six Chinese are the six that liberated Yunnan so don’t know what I can do about that.

the Flying Tiger is in Burma. Japan would have to declare war on UK to attack it, and they are in no position to really threaten Burma. It could be taken out with planes but personally I would use the planes to wipe out all Chinese inf they can reach.

I wouldn’t necessarily say Japan is weak - they are just occupied with other things.

Japan had all 4 units alive after taking yunnan? Because you needed 6 inf to take it back? And then had terrible luck in defence?
Still the fighter is exposed there but you can still place your india stack there with the fighter + where is the tactical india starts with?

Also in this situation UK-pac would declare war and whipe out most of the japanese transports round 1. At least from what i seen that is all the transports in range. And take java for good measure. Gives them a huge income the next round and japan not in a position to threathen.

Japan will declare war round 2 anyway because else UK-pac will declare war :) so 1 round difference is not a big deal, the 15ipcs NO bonus for japan and anzac is.

Also why lose a destroyer in the med as a blocker? Just put it with the fleet you want italy to attack your fleet, you got more of basically everything there. IF he attacks he loses his fleet and you can attack on your turn somewhere else as it repairs.

I don’t remember what Japan took Yunnan with.

I honestly wasn’t paying much attention when moving Japan around. I would always send escorts with the trn. It is what it is.

The Tac either never got put on, or I may have scooped it up by mistake when cleaning up the board. I put one back on.

I removed the IC in Egypt and dropped 3 inf and art in London instead.

Edit: playing alone, I don’t have a roomful of eyes to tip me off when stuff is missed.

Just saw the missing units so id check for them, didnt know i notice these things from startup because i set up the board so many times i can nearly do it by heart.
But the fleet near india is quite strong, BB + cruiser+destroyer so even just sending 1 cruiser as escort would make it a tempting target for UK-pac.

It depends ofcourse what japan bought and stuff but if i can take out all of the transports in the south and i can take java and the other island its a big win. They cant take it back so even if i lose the transport it will be 3 turns of getting money for me.

Just trying to give feedback and saying what moves i would make given the information on the board. Things like moving 6 chinese infantry in the line of fire is something i try not to do to much if i can help it.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

I appreciate your feedback.

I wasn’t giving Japan the attention it deserves and that’s my bad. I’m kinda super focused on Europe. I almost forgot China’s turn.

Japan is just treading water until it launches its attack in a future turn. It’s going to be a Know The Rules moment when their attack comes. I could have just set up that battle and gone but I decided to play the whole world so I can try out things like ignore SZ 110. I have unconventional strats for every country and I sprinkle them in here and there when playing a game for another strat, etc. Gives me some practice before those vids are made.

It’s time for G2

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

It’s UK2 turn

I1: Purchase 1 tank, 1 mech. Took Syria and Trans Jordan. 1 SB bombed London IC for $5 IC (AA missed). Italy has $13 in the bank.

G2: Purchase 3 tanks, 4 mech, 6 inf, 2 ftr. 3 inf in Normandy, 3 inf in So France, mechs and tanks in Berlin, ftrs in West Germany. Took Iceland and Greece. Tanks in France moved 2 spaces east. 11 stack in Berlin moved into Poland. All AAA’s moved one space east. 3 SB’s bombed London IC (AA’s missed) for $18. London IC now at max 20 damage. France convoyed $4 off. Germany has $53 in the bank.

UK2: UK has $23 to spend. London IC is at max 20 damage.

What are you buying as UK Atlantic? How much are you paying off the max damage IC?
Are you going after the Italian fleet and taking back Trans Jordan? Something else?

[shadowhawk]

@dazedwit

Well first off, why is there an italian fleet in SZ80 the french could have taken care of that :P The convoy damage isnt worth leaving a transport alive.

Where are the troops from afrika? Egypt looks pretty empty?

But normally i would sink the last remaining italian ships there, hard to see where germany is weak with just pictures.

But you can play this against yourself, as i feel that im playing against you and being handicapped by moves that i dont have any control over.

[dazedwit]

@shadowhawk

Well, I am playing against myself, but your comments leaves wanting to know what you would do since it’s different than what I was playing. I liked getting a full view of how gibbastion works because what’s on the internet leaves a lot to be desired. I’m going to mess around with that strat in future games to really get a good feel for how awesome it can be, or failure.

French were planning to get the bigger convoy prize and didn’t give the fleet a second thought. They def could have taken out Italians in Egypt and wouldn’t have affected my catnip plan.

Africa - tank and inf took trn to kill Italians on the horn. one inf got wiped out blocking Alexandria. That’s it. A lot of times, the India trn will go after the Horn but they did the money islands this game instead. I normally like to have UK activate Greece turn 1 but I figured since I was building in the Med I should try to kill as many Italians as possible.

I just wanted to see if the Gib bulge would go after the Italian fleet. I placed most of the fleet in Syria so that way UK can’t get back to Gib naval base in one turn. Placed tiny fleet off of Egypt just because if I put entire fleet off Syria, opponent would smell a rat. At least I would if I was UK. I thought maybe the economic warfare might be a tip off, but I do that every game for first turn at least.

Germany leaving Italy to die to save Germany. But Italy is in the ME, and they can really add up dollars heading to Russia.

Edit: feels like most games, by the time Italy gets to Russia, that part of the country is pretty bare and Italy blitzes through $2 territories