Commanders and Terrain?

[Aldrahill]

Hey all,

I love the Commanders expansion, great to have that big swing of damage effects.

However, one question, do commanders basically just get rid of terrain penalties entirely as a concept?

Like, you will eventually end up with enough commanders that nearly every battle has a commander in it, so terrain just… doesn’t matter, right?

I know that the base rule of the game is that only the highest and lowest modifiers affected our units (so mountain -1 and river -1 is still only a -1, as -1 is the lowest you can get) but commanders just kind of let you ignore that.

But should a commander only remove ONE of the males? So, with a mountain and a river and a commander, you still get a -1?

Also, does a commander not basically remove the need for artillery? All infantry already get a +1 from the commander, so who needs an artillery pairing, right?

Just wondering if I can improve using commanders, really.

[TheVeteran]

@aldrahill im guessing that infantry can get a +1 from the commander and a +1 from arty making them attack at a +2. correct me if I am wrong?

[Aldrahill]

@theveteran But the rules specifically state that a unit only ever gets the highest or the lowest bonus - so a +1 and +1 shouldn’t add together…

[TheVeteran]

@aldrahill rule 0.3 states that only one modifier applies at any given time, correct. So yes this does make it seem like a commander will replace the role of artillery pairing with inf to boost their attack.

[Delaja]

@Mountaineer

Can you clarify this for the boys? If memory serves me well, you made this one?

[Trig]

@theveteran
@Aldrahill
The FAQ stated a while ago that commanders are above and beyond terrain. (ie, they don’t care about the 1 highest, 1 lowest rule.) Thus you just apply the penalty, then move the units up by one.

[Aldrahill]

@trig said in Commanders and Terrain?:

The FAQ stated a while ago that commanders are above and beyond terrain. (ie, they don’t care about the 1 highest, 1 lowest rule.) Thus you just apply the penalty, then move the units up by one.

I get that; if I have a commander attacking a mountain, my units just stay the same, as they get a -1 and a +1, cancelling out.

My main question is about their combination with things like artillery, plus they just sort of delete terrain as a problem. I was just wondering if there was any thought on how to balance them a bit better, because as it stands, there is basically no reason to use artillery other than that small chance of a first strike.

I had the idea of having specialty commander - tank commander, artillery commander, etc, that conferred special benefits. Maybe Tank Commander allowed for additional blitzing units? Artillery commander allows 2 infantry per arty?

I don’t like the idea of the commander giving a flat +1 to a specific unit type, because then the infantry commander is always economically the better bet.

[Trig]

@aldrahill I agree about the specialized commanders.
As for art, you would get +2. Commanders stack with the art bonus.

[Aldrahill]

@trig

I’ll have a think and see if I can workshop some ideas for the specialized commanders.

And awesome, I wasn’t sure if it would stack - so basically, commanders just always give a +1 no matter what after calculating the highest and lowest rule?

Bonus question for you, unrelated: how does damaged battleship damage work? A battleship is normally an 8, and a damaged battleship is a 6. After getting hit, does a defending battleship then defend that turn on an 8, or a 6?

[Unrealius]

This post is deleted!

[Trig]

@aldrahill I treat it as any other casualty. They shot back that round, and the effects (whether death or damage) is applied afterwards.
(Of course first strike would mess with this.)
So, yes, they shot

Edit: I hit enter too early. :)
Continuing:
“…at 8 for the round when hit”

[TheVeteran]

@trig if you are subject to a penalty from the terrain that means it has affected you. come on now.

[TheVeteran]

@aldrahill they don’t delete terrain as a problem if units are still getting -1 due to the terrain. its still a lower attack value than in flat terrain where the commander would give the units +1 and there is no negative modifier.

for your example of unit type commanders. well maybe a tank commander can blitz so that would bring extra value to the tank commander over the infantry commander.

[TheVeteran]

@aldrahill the combat round that a battleship is damaged it will fire back at an 8 because it started that round as undamaged. any time after the round that it was damaged it will defend at a 6.

[Linkler]

@theveteran what? pretty sure as soon as you mark it damaged it’s defending/ attacking at the lower value

[TheVeteran]

@linkler trig actually already explained it.

[Noneshallpass]

To complete the answer to the damaged Battleship question, the Rule 9.1 for combat procedure covers that.

The Attacker and Defender place their units on the Battle Boards « on the number that corresponds to their Attack of Defense values ».

« Defending units (including those chosen as casualties) get their defense rolls. »

So the undamaged Battleship started at 8 and will roll at 8 no matter what.

After it is damaged, it will be moved to 6 for the next round.

[Linkler]

@noneshallpass ok I hear you and I seen that trig had explained it it’s just that as the attacker rolls the defender (usually) selects casualties, right? So if the battleship is hit it would be moved down to “6” before it rolls back so when it’s the defenders turn to shoot back his battleship is sitting in the “6” position it just makes sense that that’s what it would roll back at. Not trying to be difficult here and I think trig is like a designer or something right so he’d know for sure ?

[TheVeteran]

@Linkler no no no , casualties are chosen immediately but not taken immediately. The round the battleship is damaged it still fires back at an 8, the same as if any other unit is hit, it still gets a chance to return fire before it is officially sunk

[Noneshallpass]

@Trig and @TheVeteran and I are all saying the same thing.

All units defend at the number that they were at the start of the combat round.

So it does not matter if they take a hit (except for first strikes) and if the result of the hit is to destroy them or, as in the case of capital ships, move them to a lower Defense roll level that will only apply at the start of the next combat round.