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On my map, the St. Laurence Seaway connects Ottawa to Sea Zone 21.
Declaration or war during an opponent’s non-combat movement
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Let’s say on Britain’s non-combat move they move ships through a sea zone with Italian ships already present. Italy decides to declare war at the moment. Does combat occur even though it’s a non-combat move? If so, is Italy the attacker or the defender? I wasn’t able to find anything in the rules regarding this.
Thanks!
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@jon-b I play that in this case, you would have to move that movement in combat move, because of this problem.
In the RAW, I think that combat is not conducted and instead the fleet is stopped and combat will happen on Italy’s turn. -
@trig yah that makes sense. Thanks for the reply
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Combat does not occur. See section 0.5. Nations are allowed to share sea zones when at war under certain conditions, the first being
“When naval units of Major Powers that are not at war suddenly come to be at war.”
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In these cases, units do not participate in combat until one power makes a new combat move during the combat movement phase against the other units in that zone. Either side can move out of the zone freely without triggering an attack. -
@insanehoshi Ahh ok, that’s what I was looking for. So let’s say my original scenario is taking part in the combat phase rather than the non-combat phase. Does this rule apply as well or would combat actually occur?
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@jon-b I think the keyword is “New Combat Move,” so no it wouldn’t occur.
The only way i see it could force the British navy to fight, would be if there was a combat occuring in the zone the italian fleet is at.
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@insanehoshi I think I get it lol. Would the British fleet have to stop in the sea zone with the Italian ships when the declaration of war is made?
Another thought, if the British are making a combat move through the sea zone of the neutral Italians, but the Italians end up declaring war, wouldn’t the move of the British into that sea zone now be considered a combat move since the ships are entering a hostile sea zone?
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@jon-b said in Declaration or war during an opponent’s non-combat movement:
Would the British fleet have to stop in the sea zone with the Italian ships when the declaration of war is made?
Nope it could freely move out
Another thought, if the British are making a combat move through the sea zone of the neutral Italians, but the Italians end up declaring war, wouldn’t the move of the British into that sea zone now be considered a combat move since the ships are entering a hostile sea zone?
I dont think they would, since a “new combat move” needs to be made for the units in that zone to fight. The only way the italians could fight the fleet is if they DOW before the combat move.
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@insanehoshi interesting. Thanks for the insight!
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@insanehoshi I think that makes since, though it is problematic, as it can never stop a moving fleet.
If occurring during the combat movement phase, I would assume that it would count as the “new combat move” and the fight would occur. -
@trig along this line of thought if you non combat move say a transport through a sea zone where an enemy sub is present can he stop it and sink it?
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@linkler I think the way it works is that you cant non-combat move through a zone with a submarine except in the case of you have forced the submarine to submerge using MAP, if you did that, your transport can non combat move through since you can share sea zones with a submerged sub as per 0.5.
Also i think any movement that may result in combat, is combat movement.
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@trig this is why the DOW has to be made before any combat moves occur.
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@jon-b refer to General Hand Grenade DOW video and follow on video on the steps for DOW
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We could even make it more complex. Say a British fighter moves through a sea zone with a neutral Italian fighter on MAP/CAP, and while the British fighter is two steps away of its AC with the neutral fighter in between and it fights a battle with a German destroyer and wins, what would happening Italy decides to declare war before non combat by the Brits back to the IC. Everything is immediately, so the British fighter would be at war with Italy and be denied to fly back to its AC and crash? Or would it fight the Italian fighter on its way back? And would the AC be allowed to go towards the fighter with the Italian fighter in its way. I think the immediate rules make the game more complex and although a nice starting point it is cumbersome in such gaming situations. It would be a lot easier to play and remember if DOW can be done in your own combat and non combat movement phases and in all the other phases of you and your opponents. But not in your opponent’s combat and non combat phases. Mind that fun is more important than FAQ’s, so house rule such things. If playing outside your own group like on the Internet, use the official solutions. This as a suggestion to not overcomplicate the situations. In the immediacy combat would occur if the DOW is done in the opponent’s combat move. If say three ships have passed and a neutral destroyer would go to war with you, the fourth ship you announce would not be able to move into that destroyer’s sea zone because of the sudden war status, but it would be allowed to leave if it was already in there. Easy does it by excluding the DOW in opponent’s movement phases. Many roads lead to Rome.
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@delaja I think it should be like this: if you want to stop movement from
Happening you must declare war before any moves have been made.
Also: you may choose to declare war after combat moves have been made in order to “surprise a naval
Combat by adding your units in to the fight where you share a sea zone with your ally. L” -
@theveteran hopefully there’s a little more clarity in v4
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My advise is make clarity your own priority.
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@theveteran
Good additions 👍🏼
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