@Subotai:
I think AA42 will be better than Revised, and that players will stop playing Revised and AA42 will be the new main A&A game
You are correct. Revised is out of print, so we got no choice. AA42 will be the main game.
and that is a no-brainer
@Subotai:
It’s about the total game balance, not if Germany is stronger with or w/o Italy.
I was just wondering what others thought of Italy being in the AA50 game. Do you think it helps Germany as a seperate entity or do you think they should be kept together as the new revised edition coming out is supposed to have. 8-)
gee, and i thought the question was about if 'it helps Germany as a seperate entity or do you think they should be kept together" the reference to AA42 was for reference to Germany controlling all Euro Axis forces.
I like Italy integrated as a 6th player. Some arguments now about China being a 7th, that’s where Italy used to be. It’s not the powerhouse of Germany, but it isn’t supposed to be, all the countries are different.
I’ve played games where Italy was added as a unique country in AAR and AAE and have enjoyed both. It can be a touchy thing when a German player doesn’t want to commit troops to help protect Italy or if Italy falls, it’s an easy thing to cite as the reason we lost, and all. Italy can be a key to winning or losing whether it’s combined or not, sure, and so can other fronts, like in Russia, but for getting a 6th player into the game instead of just watching, Italy’s especially great.
@Subotai:
It’s about the total game balance, not if Germany is stronger with or w/o Italy.
I was just wondering what others thought of Italy being in the AA50 game. Do you think it helps Germany as a seperate entity or do you think they should be kept together as the new revised edition coming out is supposed to have. 8-)
gee, and i thought the question was about if 'it helps Germany as a seperate entity or do you think they should be kept together" the reference to AA42 was for reference to Germany controlling all Euro Axis forces.
I like Italy integrated as a 6th player. Some arguments now about China being a 7th, that’s where Italy used to be. It’s not the powerhouse of Germany, but it isn’t supposed to be, all the countries are different.
I’ve played games where Italy was added as a unique country in AAR and AAE and have enjoyed both. It can be a touchy thing when a German player doesn’t want to commit troops to help protect Italy or if Italy falls, it’s an easy thing to cite as the reason we lost, and all. Italy can be a key to winning or losing whether it’s combined or not, sure, and so can other fronts, like in Russia, but for getting a 6th player into the game instead of just watching, Italy’s especially great.
We have tried a 6 player 42 game where we drew out of the hat to see who ended up with which country, I ended up with Russia which is limited until you turn things around, but the Italian player was actually not too effective. Personally I would have done things differently, but ultimately it was Italy’s weakness that opened up Germany to fall. It was really cool however having 6 players around the table though and I would like to try Italy only to see how I would do.
China would be do boring to actually play as a player the way it is now. I have a Xeno games World at War version where China has its own pieces and does a little more then this version, but still limited. That game starts in 39 and has France seperate as well. Also I do like the way the neutral countries are handled in that version, as each country has its own force and can be convinced to join up to your cause. 8-)
I love Italy as a seperate entity. I think it adds a much more intersting game dynamic. I also love the concept of China being its own entity, but as with everyone else, I feel they needed to modify the way China was dealt with in this game. It feels cool to have two “minor powers” in the game, and Italy is fun to play simply because of that (obviously not China).
As far as if it helps or hurts Germany as a whole to have it divided up? I am still unsure. The is one MAJOR MAJOR advantage to having them seperate, and that is the ability to double hit Russia, or to keep Russia limited on movement and troop allocation. This is one of the most frustrating things about playing Russia, is that you can no longer leave a “speed bump” to prevent your capital from being taken while you allocate forces elsewhere due to Italy being able to knock it out and open the door for Germany.
That and that alone is why I think it is somewhat plausible why Italy as a seperate power is more advantageous to the axis.
China would be do boring to actually play as a player the way it is now. I have a Xeno games World at War version where China has its own pieces and does a little more then this version, but still limited. That game starts in 39 and has France seperate as well. Also I do like the way the neutral countries are handled in that version, as each country has its own force and can be convinced to join up to your cause. 8-)
so true. i think probably the best way to get 7 players or more is going to have to be along the lines of increased detail to the map, i.e. zoom in it and make it bigger to accommodate the extra pieces and territories while keeping the game at the AA level…don’t know if we’ll ever see that, but i can always work on mod’ing the rules to help…
I like AA being a 6 player game instead of a 5 player game. And if you bring 5 people to play, then someone just gets italy and germany (or italy and japan).
Italy is one of the coolest additions in the anniversary edition, IMHO. Italy as a separate entity:
restricts Germany’s production (one IC)
takes out Russian “speed bumps” so Germany can blitz (“can opening”)
disrupts the England/US one two punch (and co ordinated defensive moves)
provides the allies with a target
is just plain cool
That’s off the top of my head.
I think the next deluxe version they make (thirtieth anniversary perhaps) should also include Italy, but I am fine with the basic game being five players.
italy rocks. unlike in the real war. :evil:
my friends and I always played AAE using Jap pieces as Italy, it’ll be great to actually have italy in the world version, I can’t wait for my AA50 to get here and see what Italy can do
I guess by the responses I have read it is unanimous, Italy is better as a seperate entity mainly due to the added possibilities that it creates and the overall strategy changes it allows from both sides.
The other thing I really do like is that with 6 countries it is axis then allies turns rotated so as to not have two allied turns back to back. It is harder to double team that way.
Thank you every one for your thoughts. 8-)
