Posts made by Gwlachmai

It seems the Jap counter will be an airbase in KWA, then if you go near the coast they can send the entire airforce at you. Essentially you’ll only get one turn of free movement, when the Japanese airforce actually goes in for the India crush.

All I’m reading is….“nope, I don’t want to see all my bad ideas debunked.” I don’t blame you though, I didn’t want to believe in the India crush either, in fact you’ll note at the beginning of the thread I didn’t believe it either, then my gaming group caught on to it. So I thought maybe if I played forum games there would be some other strats to defeat it…nope. India just dies before the allies can get any kind of parity in land/sea forces and a decent player drives that advantage home every time.

Play a forum game and we can confirm the rules, the game edition and the India crush all in one fell swoop.

A naval base in Wake or Midway brings very little to the table. Even if you build it on turn two and move your fleet there the India crush happens on turn three and Japan can easily build nothing but navy to defend their home sea zone.

Still doesn’t seem terribly effective to me. I would think it’s going to be more cost effective for Japan to destroy them with destroyer/air unit combos then it would be to keep spamming subs. Especially if you’re not contesting the DEI. I wouldn’t mind seeing it in action, but, I wouldn’t have enough confidence to actually implement such a strat.

My requests for Europe are:

1. Scrap the Euro
2. Rename Estonia (Gwlachstonia perhaps?)
3. Greece should switch countries with Mexico (since their currency is worth the same)
4. Portugal and Spain should merge (I think this would look better on the map, and it would make it easier for me in Total War Empire)

@Hobbes:

@Gwlachmai:

The problem with sub heavy build is their weak defense and inability to hit air units. All Japan needs to do is send one or two destroyers in along wth their air units, so in the end the US will lose 6-8 subs and Japan loses maybe two destroyers.

Place only 1 US sub on each SZ and counterattack to sink the spread out Japanese DDs

They have to mass up somewhere in order to get to the convoy zones, otherwise you’re spreading them out over 0 IPC islands and it will take too long to use them to any good effect anyway. I tend to agree with FunCioneta, the US would do better with a balanced build, but that takes time to build and deploy.

The problem with sub heavy build is their weak defense and inability to hit air units. All Japan needs to do is send one or two destroyers in along wth their air units, so in the end the US will lose 6-8 subs and Japan loses maybe two destroyers.

No one is quitting, however, what you run into is India falling on J3, leaving the US with 127 IPC’s worth of builds to catch up to Japan, which really isn’t a huge amount. So then China is isolated and the bulk of Japans airforce flys to one of the DEI or the Phillipines and controls the area along with Japans fleet. Japan is likely out producing the US along with having more land/air strength to boot. Against two fairly evenly matched players this is a huge disadvantage to overcome.

Set up a game at your convienance sir…F+ is passing right?

Ohhh….how did I do?

I don’t know, I’m not quite willing to say it’s broken yet. I think it’s quite possible that my group and I fell into a rut, but, it’s reinforced by the play I see on the forums. I did have some luck against Jim010 with feints towards Japan, but, that game had a bid that ended up hurting his airforce quite a bit. I’d like to try a few more non bid games as the allies and see if the India rush can be mitigated with a Korea counter push.

The problem becomes, if India falls on J3 or J4 that’s not really much time for America to build up. It becomes an easy counter to send your fighters back within striking range of Japan. Also Japan in alot of games will keep a few infantry in Manchuria to counter attack with fighters, so the US is delayed in when they can build an industrial complex. I’m not saying it’s not a valid strat, just that it’s difficult if India falls quickly. even more so if the DEI are not being contested…

@Razor:

@Gwlachmai:

So basically the counter arguement is that the game is not broken is…we can’t (or won’t) demonstate that it’s not broken, just take our word for it, the play testers are smarter then we are. I’m all for reasoned debate, but, that line of thinking brings nothing to the discussion.

So basically some of WOTC’s sharpest brains started to playtest this game back in 2005, and you know what, some of the playtesters are actually lurking this forum, and they laugh at you at this very moment, when they see your level. So let me get you straight, you purchased this game two months ago, right, and how many games have you played, less than 10, right, and now you claim the game is broken ? Dude, come back to me next year, and if you still think the game is broken, I just might wrote you an strategy essay and explain how the allies are played correctly. Obviously you dont have a clue.

I purchased the game the day it arrived in my local game store, so closer to four months ago, I’ve played six forum games and my gaming group was closing in on 20 before some of the guys got tired of it (by it I mean the J1 India rush) and stopped. How many exactly have you played, or are you posting as the manditory WOTC fanboi that seems to pop up in any thread? “Some of WOTC’s sharpest brains”
What the f–k does that even mean? Give me a lesson in strategy right now, let’s see if you can beat me in a forum game, otherwise you’re just here trolling. Dibs on Japan btw…

US subs were attacking Japanese transvestites? I must have missed that on Wikipedia. So basically the counter arguement is that the game is not broken is…we can’t (or won’t) demonstate that it’s not broken, just take our word for it, the play testers are smarter then we are. I’m all for reasoned debate, but, that line of thinking brings nothing to the discussion.

Way to post a timeline…now you ruined the ending for me.

Obviously Europe will change the dynamics of the game. That doesn’t change the fact that Pac40 was released as a stand alone game. I’m not quite willing to call it broken yet, but, it’s hard not to think that when you see the same attack set over and over with the same end result.

@Hobbes:

@Whitmann:

Pretty sure as everyone playing on this board reads the errata and corrections… The Japanese simply can not be stopped without a bid.

My question is why Japan taking Calcutta on J3 or J4 means the game is imbalanced. If Japan takes China + UK + Indochina + DEI + PI then it will be earning 68 IPCs + 10 from NOs, while the US + ANZAC have 55 + 15, or 78 to 70. Japan already starts with 704 points of units while the allies have 832 and the Allies will still be making more money than Japan until J3 or J4.
And, as mentioned before the Allies can throw a few speed bumps on the DEI using the ANZAC/US/UK planes and slow the conquest of the islands. Plus, Japan will have to deploy most of its fleet to India unless it wants the UK/ANZAC making combined attacks to sink the transports. This leaves plenty of openings, specially on the DEI since it can be hard/impossible for the Japanese to prevent Allied from retaking islands if they have US/ANZAC transports on Queensland/New Zealand.
And if Japan ignores those DEI islands and concentrates on India, even better for the Allies since Japan will be making at least 9 less IPCs, while the Allies can reinforce the island with further planes and troops.
To me taking India and the DEI as fast as possible is the best way to help Japan winning because of the starting inbalance regarding units and income (and the fact that it is facing 4 powers that need to combine their efforts) but it does not ensure victory.

Or, to conclude, it is pretty much impossible to stop Japan from taking India if he wants to. The question is how much he has to sacrifice elsewhere and if the allied player(s) are skilled enough to take advantage of it.

The IPC value of combat units in the game at start are 515 for the Allies and 614 for Japan, of which the allies lose a minimum of 102 in a J1 attack, for very little cost to Japan. If India falls on J3 or J4 and the Japanese are in possesion of the DEI it is extremely difficult to come back from that. Feel free to play a forum game and show us how “skilled” allied players defeat the J1 India rush.

Play a forum game as the allies then…

@Razor:

…and its not only about IPC. There are benefits and inconviniences to both J1 and J3 attacks. Pulling a J1 attack, the allies can not block your movement, but you are far away from all Capitals. In a J3 attack you have the opportunity to position your fleet in striking distance from India or NSW, wich will be decesive battles, but the allies have time to block your routes. So basically it boils down to personal preferance.

I think you’re kind of missing the point of the thread. There are enormous benefits to the J1 attack that you do not see in the J2 or J3 and J3 attacks. You crush the British economy, you can sink all but one allied transport on the board, the Japanese economy grows faster then it otherwise would on a J2 or J3, and all this for minimal losses.

What gains are you balancing this against for a J2 or J3? Japans economy stagnates for an extra round or two (being locked around 32-36 IPC’s), the UK’s economy could potentially shoot up to 29-37 depending on how long you wait, and the US forces at the Phillipines, and the British South pacific fleet escape destruction. All the repositioning you would normally do on a J2 attack you can still do on a J1 only now allyour oppostion in the area is dead. Sure it’s personal choice as to which you use, but, realistically there is no reason to use a J2 or J3 all the advantages are in J1.

My group initially experimented with J2 and J3 attacks, but, after seeing the benefit’s of the J1 India rush it’s become the default attack strat and after an impressive string of Jap wins we’ve pretty much put the game away. So now I have to play forum games to get my game on, and I’ve seen nothing on there to suggest that the results are any different for others. I hope that the combined game balances this out some, but, that still sucks for Pac40 as a stand alone game.